Nixon phone call with Colson on 1972 campaign and George McGovern

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NixonHello?

OperatorHello, Mr. President?

NixonYeah.

OperatorYes sir, I have Mr. Colson for you, sir.

NixonGo ahead, please.

ColsonHello. Yes, sir, Mr. President.

NixonWell, I thought your group was really worth doing today.

ColsonWell, I'm glad. I'm glad that you could, Mr. President. That I, I know that's tiring after you had all that

NixonOh no, no, not that, not, that's very easy for me, but it's

ColsonYou sure gave him quite a send-off, boy.

NixonThey're, but you know, they're that kind of group, you know, sort of a blue-collar working guys, they don't get in those into those high places very often. That's, that's the kind of people we really, that's where you build our new majority.

ColsonYou really do. I

NixonAnd, and they are, they are fine people, and they cheered at the right times, they were really good.

ColsonOh boy, your, your line about uh keep what you, uh, work uh Yeah. I won't get it right, but

NixonWork for what you get, and get what you work for. You bet you're work right.

ColsonAnd uh boy, that really gave him a lift. Uh I was standing, I mixed in with the crowd a little bit. I wanted to see the kinds of people who were in there. Yeah.

ColsonThere was a Teamster from uh Indiana. They, a lot of them had come quite a distance. One, one, one young girl said, telling her boyfriend I guess, she said, "I'm just, I'm just so excited, I think I'm going to faint."

NixonAll right.

Colson[laughter] That really is a great, great thing.

NixonWell too, and I deliberately uh got in some of the foreign policy and the amnesty stuff and so forth.

ColsonNo.

NixonBecause they, they need to hear that. I mean, they, they believe that, and we just may as well lay that out there.

ColsonI uh

NixonWe'll get McGovern talking about it.

ColsonOh, I think we will. I think we're going to see him talk about amnesty. I think that's what he wants one of these half-hours for that uh he's trying to buy. And uh defense and amnesty, I think he's worried about it.

NixonHe's worried, what can he say about it?

ColsonI don't know what he can do with amnesty, other than to try to do a uh Muskie-type speech where he uh tries to prove how completely fair, and uh, you know, he'll, he'll try to fudge it up, I'm sure he'll try to

NixonTry to fudge it up and say, "Well, we'll have them, we'll have them work in the Peace Corps."

ColsonYeah.

NixonUh-uh, [laughter] uh-uh. Oh sir, hell no, these, these, these poor bastards that got shot didn't work in the Peace Corps.

ColsonThat's right.

ColsonI don't see how, he can't get off the issue. The only thing he can do is uh if he tries to take the sting out of it, he may make it worse by talking about it. I guess the best thing he could do really is just duck the whole amnesty issue entirely.

NixonYeah, either that or change his position.

ColsonWell, it's a Yeah, well, no, I don't see, he can't do that. God, he just uh

NixonWell, he changed it on the schools and

Colson[laughter] Yeah, uh, but I think that on that one he'd have a hell of a problem with the kids.

NixonThat's one, yeah, that's the one they believe in, don't they?

ColsonYep, that's one they really do and uh

NixonYeah.

ColsonNo, he's got to go uh

NixonI worked, I, I've noticed, and looked, looking at that uh, that Massachusetts study is really interesting, and that's amnesty and abortion is what's hitting them up there.

ColsonYeah, that's Oh, that's Doug Hallett's uh up at That's what you were telling me, yeah.

ColsonHe's up at Harvard Law School. He just went up there 2 weeks ago [laughter] and I thought he was going to turn to the left and uh, my God, his call to me was uh

NixonIs he in law school now?

ColsonYes sir, he just started Harvard. He was going to wait a year and I told him, and stay through the No, he ought to, he ought to go to school, yeah.

Colsonstay the 6 weeks of the campaign and I said, "No, that's that's taking a whole year out of his life and he'd, he'd done a good job for us. But I thought he'd go left when he got up to Cambridge, my God, he hasn't.

NixonHe hasn't?

ColsonOh, just the reverse. He's living in a lower middle-class blue-collar district, Inman Square, I know just where he lives. Uh-huh. And he said, "There aren't any McGovern votes here." He said, the working people, he said, "They just talk about amnesty, abortion and pot."

Nixon[unintelligible]

ColsonAnd he said, they're scared to death of this guy, and he said there's nothing he can say that will change their opinions.

NixonIs that right?

ColsonOh yeah, he said it's

NixonPot, huh? You know uh Julie was saying that uh she had heard McGovern say that he's not for legalizing marijuana, and I said, "Well, what did he say?" "He says, well, he wants to treat it like alcohol." I says, "That's legalizing it.

ColsonThat's right.

NixonAlcohol's legal.

ColsonUh-huh.

NixonYou know, they, I don't think he can get off of that, do you?

ColsonNo, what he's, what he said is uh in that Playboy interview a year ago, which we've hung around his neck about eight times, Meany keeps referring to it [laughter] Good. he talked there about uh wanting to uh legalize it, and then he switched his position to say that he wanted to reduce it from a felony to a misdemeanor, the possession of it.

NixonUh-huh.

ColsonAnd uh that's what he's talking about, that he's not in favor of legalizing it, he still would leave it a misdemeanor. Uh-huh. But that's a pretty fine, I mean, that's a pretty fine point for people uh

Nixon[laughter]

ColsonThe man on the street doesn't understand the difference between the felony, misdemeanor, sophisticates and lawyers uh others do, but uh and maybe reducing the penalties he he could get away with, but he still got the he's still stuck with

NixonWell actually, I'm for I'm for modification of penalties in many, in many areas, but I don't talk about it anymore.

ColsonExactly. Well, sure, that's a responsible position to reduce some of the penalties, but Yeah. but uh well, the trouble the trouble he has, Mr. President, on an issue like that, is that you can't ever get rid of the impression, and uh

NixonYeah.

NixonYou bet.

Colsonit, it may not be uh It's fair in his case, because he's these are all his positions, but he can't get away from them, because he's got the the impression that he's soft, and boy, nobody who watched you on television last night talking about drug pushers, or to- watched you Monday night, we've had a good week on drugs, I By God, if we don't have that that issue.

NixonWe got that at least, you've said it twice, on on prime- no, on on uh TV time, haven't we?

ColsonThree nets. You've said it, all three nets two nights this week uh have had at least two minutes, some up to three, Right. of this issue. We've also gotten pretty good coverage out of our people hitting him uh good and hard.

NixonRight.

ColsonMm-mm.

ColsonSo that uh, and then print at least. Uh well, as a matter of fact, with Ambrose, we did get a little bit of television, so it's good.

ColsonI think we've gotten uh I think we've gotten the most uh out of what we set out to do this week, which was the permissives. Right. Uh and we've raised the amnesty issue all over the place. Uh got Kleindienst now talking about that.

NixonRight.

NixonGood.

ColsonHe'll do well with it. And uh

NixonThe thing we've got to be on amnesty, we've all got to be exactly the same, and the, and the, and the thing we've got to say is what I said there, that people who deserted must pay a penalty. Use the word penalty, so that it doesn't look like they're just going to come back, you know, because, and they should.

ColsonRight.

ColsonThat's right.

NixonGod damn it, it's wrong for anybody to come back. If they're going to come back, as, as Lincoln said, "By God, they can serve as the number of days they're out of the country in prison."

ColsonWell, we've got some press people going up to Canada this week to do uh interviews with uh the kids up there who will all be uh casting their absentee ballots for McGovern. Right. I think we might get some stories out of there.

NixonI think we ought to take away their citizenship.

ColsonWell, Barry Goldwater is proposing that in a speech tomorrow, a statement uh that went out this afternoon for tomorrow, and uh Yeah. Why shouldn't we?

ColsonThat's right, and he's going to say they've deserted the country and uh they shouldn't have the rights of citizens to vote. Uh we'll, we'll stir a little bit on that.

NixonKeep it alive, right?

ColsonOh boy, it doesn't matter really how we do it, just as long as we keep people talking about it. We've got uh Kleindienst speaking out on it. We've got our- Lowell Weicker's been uh really taken off on this issue. He said he went around Connecticut, I maybe I told you this, but

NixonGood.

NixonNo.

Colsonwent through the state [cough] and he didn't do anything except talk about amnesty and McGovern, and he said, my God, he was getting responses from the crowd, so now he wants to do something legislatively. He wants to put in a bill that will that make make penalty-

NixonI mean, Weicker, of all people.

ColsonWeicker, yeah. [laughter] Well, you see, that's, that's what's happening, and these uh these people are catching on to it. Uh the latest Rhode Island poll, taken last weekend, uh for you by Becker, who was who I never have known to be off, is 52-24, and that's compared with 48-26 uh 3 weeks ago in Rhode Island.

NixonAll right.

ColsonWe're stronger in Rhode Island than we were 3 weeks ago, and and uh DiSimone uh and Chafee are hanging on your coattails.

NixonHm.

ColsonChafee's improved himself a little bit, he's now All right. 10 points ahead of Pell, but uh way below way below us, and uh

NixonMm.

ColsonSo, you get into those blue-collar states, and it's just uh these issues, by God, these issues really cut.

NixonWell, you know, I could tell, and talking to that group, you know, you talk about the strong national defense and the rest, I mean, they were really enthusiastic, weren't they?

ColsonYeah, they were thrilled. Well, they were, they were, of course they were all eyes, and oh God, at being where they were, I mean, those kids never thought they'd ever be in the White House. Well, that's great.

ColsonBut it was uh, no, good, good group of kids, uh damn good.

NixonWell, that's great.

ColsonAnd they'll go out to work, you know, that's I'm glad you, you, you, you suggested it and we got a good picture taken and everything in that way, and they'll um, they'll have to use it.

ColsonWell, our labor thing, Mr. President, is really moving. I'm just uh, that's, that's great. I'm really pleased with it. Teddy Gleason, you may have seen in the Post today, announced

NixonGreat.

Colsonuh that he is going to announce, and uh, of course, he's coming in to see you on Monday, I think. Uh-huh. So, we'll get some good press out of him. We've got the building trades now set for Tuesday, and uh, Brennan's got a hell of a

Colsonlabor committee in New York that's going to be announced Wednesday, so we've we'll have them one a day next week all week long, and

NixonUh-huh.

ColsonI just think we're, I think we're going to do awfully, awfully, that is the new majority. That's where, uh,

NixonRight. Because even though labor represents only a small percentage of, well, about a fourth of the labor force, they, uh, uh, the, the unorganized labor thinks just like they do.

ColsonOh, sure. And we've Yeah, and there's, there's something else about it, that is the unorganized laborer, he not, he may not belong to a union, but his neighbor's, uh,

NixonSure.

ColsonThere's a, there's a, there's a rub-off effect, in other words the

NixonRight.

Colsonhaving organized labor against you makes it tougher for the unorganized laborer to feel that he wants to be, uh, to vote Republican. This is, this is where we're getting into that, to

NixonYes, sir.

Colson$5- to $15,000,

NixonUh-huh.

Colsonit's higher than that now, eight,

NixonAnd boy, we're going to, we're going to keep right after him.

ColsonAnd how.

NixonWell, actually, the, uh, I think our, uh, our little Texas junket was very worthwhile because of the, because of the, uh, you know, the, and it was so important to do the other events, which Connally realized, so that it wasn't just the Connally ranch,

ColsonOh, it was marvelous.

Nixonsee?

NixonThat gave it the television, uh,

ColsonYeah. I mean the whole, the whole television story, uh, would have been, uh, would, would not have been a plus if it had just been going to the Connally ranch. You did it, you it, was superb.

NixonI know. Yeah. Laredo and

ColsonOh, you got marvelous television coverage. I think that, uh, as you probably saw the, Buchanan, Buchanan's daily analysis and he, his point was that yesterday was, uh, very strongly a day for us.

ColsonMcGovern, I thought, came off very poorly last night on, uh, television. I was surprised that he, uh,

NixonTook on the, that's where he answered, uh, Agnew.

ColsonYeah, he answered Agnew, and, uh, this,

NixonAnd Henry was calling me on some other matters. He said, he, of course Henry watches some of these things. He said, he thought he looked weak, and he said sort of sappy.

ColsonYeah. That's exactly what he did.

NixonAll right.

ColsonYep. And he looked whiny, whiny is the word. He was whining, you know?

NixonWell, He said, "They're questioning my patriotism." Well, nobody's questioning his patriotism, damn it. We're just questioning whether he has a double standard.

Colson"Nobody's going to" That's right.

ColsonWhat, what they did was they, the CBS really, and, and NBC most, more, more so, really sandbagged him, because they they, they showed a clip of the Vice President, then they showed the clip of him saying they're questioning my patriotism. Well, Agnew wasn't doing that at all. Agnew was saying, very expressly, "I'm not questioning anyone's motives, I just believe that we should be, uh, even-handed and look at what's"

NixonBet your life.

Colson"the Vietnamese have done to the South."

Colson"I'm not questioning his patriotism." So it made him look like he was, uh,

NixonThat's right.

NixonYeah.

NixonIncidentally, most people think exactly that.

ColsonWell, I was going to say when he says, "Why are they questioning my patriotism?" A hell of a lot of people, you know, are sitting out there in the, in the country saying, "Well, I God damn it, I question his patriotism." [chuckles] I mean it, it, I don't think it's in his interest to raise that sort of in a whiny way.

NixonOh sure. You hear, uh, you hear some people's, uh, some of our labor doctors say he's communist,

ColsonYeah, oh sure.

Nixonyou know? They don't, they don't draw, they don't even wait two breaths.

ColsonNo, you had a few of them there last night at the Connally ranch that feel that way. Al Barkan

NixonYeah.

NixonSure, he doesn't, oh sure, he's, he's a communist, period.

Colsonis convinced he's a complete fit.

NixonYeah.

ColsonPleasure trip. And Paul Hall feels the same way.

NixonYeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ColsonI had a long talk with Dick Scammon today. I'd like to check Dick's judgment every

NixonWell, that's good. That's good. That's good.

NixonRight. I, as a matter of fact, I had down to, to ask you to be sure uh, check him every week because he's interesting.

ColsonWell, I'm doing that, uh. He, uh, he said, not to, not to, uh,

NixonYeah.

NixonDid you tell him about both the, uh, Yankel-, what's it? Yarbolinsky or

ColsonYankelovich.

NixonYankelovich and the other one that uh-huh, it's funny, and you've got, you got really three. You got Yankelovich, which of course,

ColsonYankelovich, and Harris.

NixonYeah, and Yankelovich is, I guess, person-to-person.

ColsonUh, his is, uh, I think it's person-to-person.

NixonYeah, it is. Person-to-person, but it's, but it's limited more, more or less to big states.

ColsonFifteen states. Yes, sir.

NixonRight.

ColsonThe previous Yankelovich study, if you remember, uh, came out in August. Uh, was published about the middle of August, and, uh, it showed us,

NixonMhm.

ColsonNow let's see. I have the damn thing here somewhere. At least

NixonI think it was about 30 ahead, Chuck.

ColsonHe did, Scammon has an interesting thesis that, yeah--

Nixon56 to 28 is what we had on, on Yankelovich,

ColsonYankelovich, right.

NixonVery high undecided, but,

ColsonYankelovich polls less Democrats than Harris or Gallup has.

NixonWhy?

ColsonWell, because he thinks there are less Democrats in the country than they do. Gallup has 52% Democrats, and,

NixonAlso, Yankelovich probably figures, and very properly, that Democrats, that a hell of a lot less of them vote.

ColsonThat's it, precisely.

NixonYeah. That's exactly, less Blacks vote, you know, less young people vote, right?

ColsonWell, this is where Scammon believes that, that Harris may be uh, being conservative and,

NixonIt's all right, what's he, but what does he think? He thinks we're all right, don't he?

ColsonOh, yeah, now he, he doesn't think there's any trend at all. He said, "I don't," he said, "of course, Dick Scammon kind of follows the Lubell thesis that you get an awful lot more out of talking to a few people and getting in-depth feelings and, and sample."

NixonMhm.

ColsonAnd he said he, he talks around the country all the time, that's what he does. And he said there's no, no change. He said, "Maybe you've got a little bit of,

Colsonmovement back with the young people." He said, "I would suspect that Harris," he, he said, "I would think that the young people would be shifting a little back." He said that "You got too big a turn on them too fast after Eagleton," he said, "You can't--"

NixonYeah, we got a big turn on them, and also we want to remember, Chuck, they're back in college--

ColsonYep.

Nixon--and the, and the professors are getting at them again.

ColsonYep. That's right.

NixonAnd I think we've got to expect to, to lose some of them at this point.

ColsonScammon said if you can, if you can do anywhere near 50/50 with the under-30 vote, he said, "Then, of course, you've got a, a landslide of Johnson proportions." And he said that,

Colson"You were way ahead of him in the last Gallup and Harris."

ColsonAnd he said, "That isn't, that is," he said, "I never figured that would stay."

NixonNo.

ColsonHe said, "Also, you're not going to hold with the Blacks."

NixonOh, we'd lose all those.

ColsonYep.

NixonYeah. In fact, that's the 60 uh, you know, I, I think Harris may be is repeating back what I had said to him, that really the optimum for any candidate is what Johnson had over Goldwater, was 61/39.

Nixon61/38. And, and that that incidentally was about what Roosevelt had over Landon: 62/38, something like that.

ColsonDoubly difficult for a Republican, I mean--

NixonYeah.

ColsonThat's unheard of for a Republican. That, well, this is what is, I, I know what is going through Lou Harris's mind, because he called me yesterday with his raw data.

NixonSure.

ColsonAnd then he said, "I'm going to weight it out." He said, "I'm going to put 9% Black," and Scammon today said, "Well, really it's going to be 8, maybe 7.5."

ColsonAnd he's putting 23% young and Scammon said, "I don't think so." He said--

NixonI don't agree with that at all.

ColsonHe said, "It'll be more like 21%." And he said, "Maybe even 20, because they're not registered."

ColsonAnd they aren't registering in the numbers, and he said, "The, a lot of apathy among the Blacks this year." And our pollsters say the same thing.

ColsonSo Dick Scammon's position is that we're winning two to one now, uh,

Colsonbasically.

ColsonThat uh, he says, he said, "The probably the correct figure is somewhere between

Colsonuh, Yankelovich-Sindlinger on the one hand, and Harris on the other."

NixonSure.

ColsonAnd he said, "If you can, with six weeks to go," he said, "if you've got a

Colson60 percent of the vote now without any of the undecided," he said, "you,

Colsonhe said, "You, the, Scammon's point is, he said, "You, you probably would win by 65, and he said, "That's almost--"

NixonAll we want is 60, basically.

ColsonThat's why he said it's almost, almost unheard-of, he said, and it's almost hard to believe with the

ColsonDemocratic Party having--

NixonThat's right.

Colson--the strength that it is. So he, he sees no shift, Mr. President. He says, "You're going to see a shift. You're going to see some of the Jewish vote evaporate. You're going to see,"--

NixonI agree.

ColsonHe said, "You're going to see the Black vote harden against you, but not come out, not turn out."

ColsonAnd he said, "You're going to not do as well as your people think on the youth, because," he said, "they're just basically they're going to drift back, especially," he said, "as this fellow begins now to talk about the war."

NixonMhm.

Colson"Very significant that there was no change in the union vote and,"--

NixonThe war will, the war will harden our own support in the other vote.

ColsonExactly. Well, that's hard, the significant thing in the, in the Harris breakdown stuff is that

Colsonno change in the union vote, still running away with it.

NixonMhm.

ColsonNo change, well a little bit, a slight change in the Catholic, a couple of points, which maybe was the speech he gave, who knows?

NixonCould have been.

ColsonYeah, could have been.

ColsonHe had his gaining in the West. 70-20. No, I'm sorry, 59-32 in the West, which is amazing.

Nixon59 what? 22? 59-32 in the

ColsonFar West. And then 53-34 in the Midwest.

NixonProper crisis. What who can complain about that? No, hell no. You don't complain about it.

ColsonIt's just that that was the one area that showed a little change, but that

Colsonthat could be Far West, it's good. That means California.

ColsonOh, yeah. Harris says it's stronger in California today than it than it 3 weeks ago when the overall was stronger, so he he thinks we're gaining.

NixonIt's so relaxed. The Midwest Chuck, we're going to take. I mean it's just going to go and it's it'll it'll move back and forth, we'll take it.

ColsonYeah, they'll they'll all they're all going to show a little a little fluctuation. I think we're I think this is all healthy. There'll be a lot of poll stuff the first of this week.

ColsonSindlinger is putting all his up tomorrow. His'll come out tomorrow, huh?

ColsonYes, sir. 41-point lead, the biggest in his every ever accumulated in 24 years of polling.

NixonWhere would he put that Chuck, in? Well, he's phoning it to Washington. Normally he puts it out in Philadelphia and we told him today not to because that

NixonHow does he do it, phone it to the wire services? Phoning it to the wire services, New York Times, Washington Post. That And some of them use it, huh?

ColsonWell, they did the last time we did this. You remember on the war thing, he was the first on the after May 8th, he was the first one out and we got a hell of a story out of that. And

Colsona couple of times we did on the political. Now he's got another interview in U.S. News this week. They're using him regularly in a couple of page interviews. He's getting more visibility and he's

Colsonand he's great from our from our standpoint. Sure. We get not only advance information from him, but he's pretty easy to

NixonWell, one thing about about about elections, they never stay the same. They move back and forth, back and forth, ebb and flow.

ColsonYep. Well, I I really think that That's all it would mean. I really think, particularly where we're where we are.

ColsonOh God, as Scammon said today, he said, "If we had" He said, "When we were talking back in May," he said, "If we had been discussing

Colsonwhether there was any significance between a 28, or a 34, or a 40 point margin, we'd have all thought we were" Crazy. "smoking pot." He said, "We"

ColsonWe just [laughter] That's right. He said, "God, if we'd been talking then about a 15 point margin, we would have thought we were kidding with the 1st of October." Sure.

Colsongetting away." He said, "Now, you're 1 week from the 1st of October, if anybody had ever thought we'd be trying to determine whether there were any" What did Did he mention did you talk to him about Gallup's theory about this could all evaporate?

ColsonHe thinks Gallup has gotten senile. He Does he? Yeah, he's very disturbed about Gallup. He said, "I just don't understand him." He said, "He's He thinks his He thinks his techniques are good, and he, but he just said, the fellow's really

Colsonvery surprised at the way he's talking. And Now, Scammon has another theory that this that there's a disproportion in the electorate this year, that you can't tell

Colsonas much on a nationwide sample Oh. going into a particular area. He said, "You know there are pockets." And Chicago Daily News had a survey this morning that was heard it's in the news summary this morning

Colsonthat would tend to bear out what Scammon is saying, that there isn't a direct correlation between the the national statistics and and what is really happening in the country, because he said, "You can take areas like

ColsonNorthwest Chicago," where he said "you're just going to carry him. You're just going to carry that area overwhelmingly." And he said that throws the

Colsonand it it may be in a national sample of 1600 nobody goes into Northwest Chicago. Mhm. Or maybe they get one person there, but he said you

Colsonhe said, "If you do an in-depth, and you see the enormous shift, then," he said, "you try to translate that out nationally, and it's quite a different thing. Now," he said, "you go Westchester County may be no different than it was Mhm. in the Eisenhower years of '56"

NixonYeah. "'52," but he said, "If you take a blue-collar area where there's an enormous change,

Colsonthen," he said, "that'll that'll your your national pollster will not catch that. He won't be able to. It's a If there are pockets like this around the country, where Mhm. where there's very, very heavy movement"

ColsonAnd then he said he won't catch it. They will catch it in the South where a whole region moves. But not where an area say particularly an area affected by bussing, which of course Scammon just

NixonHe still thinks it's hot. Oh, Jesus, he thinks that's He says, he said, very, very interesting. But, but the, his point is, he said, "Don't," He said, "You can't put an awful lot of stock in this, because," he said, "from a national standpoint, this

Colsonthis won't show up." But he said, "I know," he said, "The Scammon Precinct, as he calls it, Northwest Chicago," he said, "Hell, I sent Evans and Novak out there, they took a like quail through it, and you're winning at two-to-one." He said, "You normally ought to lose it three-to-one." Right.

NixonOught to win at what? He said, "You should lose it three-to-one, and you're winning it two-to-one." I'll be darned.

ColsonSo he just His point is that you you the depth of the sentiment is so strong, and the Democratic Party is so split down the middle, the old Democratic Party,

NixonMhm. that he said you may not be able to reflect this, in in a national poll.

ColsonWell, we'll And it'll just He thinks we're doing it just right. Yep.

NixonThe one thing that we have to consider, which we're I'm going to talk to Haldeman about is how much

Nixonhow much we're going to do, you know, on this motorcading, campaigning, and so forth, and so on. I think the kind of thing we did in Texas probably is helpful.

NixonI don't think we I know I know I know if you keep it on that basis I know that's helpful. But, so we'll see.

ColsonWell, I know I I put it this way, Mr. President, that if you can go into a place like Laredo and talk about drugs, Mhm. and if the if the television

Colsonplays the fact that you're in there talking about an issue, and even though they say you're had to visit fat cats at the Connally ranch, who cares? Yeah. You're in there to talk about an issue, that's that's the

NixonThe main thing we want to do is to see the crowd. [laughter] That's right. And to That came through. That that was awfully good. But Alright.

ColsonBut it there was an issue orientation to it, it wasn't just the Huh. the flag-draped Right. platforms, and political speeches. It was

NixonI agree. No political speeches. Yep, that's that's really the key to it. That's Next week's only, heaven knows, unfortunately, but [laughter]

Nixona little bit of that isn't going to You'll have to. That's right, but it's a raise our money.

ColsonI'll say this, Mr. President, that the more I watch Shriver and McGovern on television, the more I think Put them on more, huh? Yeah, Al Capp said you was absolutely right, buy some time for them. Jesus, they're Mhm.

Colsonvery unimpressive last night, and Shriver's a complete ass. I mean, he's in a Jewish delicatessen [laughter] in Brooklyn asking about the price of bacon. Did you hear about that?

NixonHe got a woman? Yeah, he he grabbed this woman and he said, "Do you realize what the Nixon inflation means? Do you know what's happened to the price of bacon?" And, of course, everybody went,

Colson"Ooh!" [laughter] all around him. It was on television, not on that In a Jewish delicatessen. In a Jewish delicatessen. And she said, "No, I don't buy bacon. My husband's a rabbi." [laughter] Great.

ColsonHe just stood there looking at her like a jackass. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the more of that,

Nixonbetter off. Well, he's a total ass. Let him let him go. Yeah, complete ass. I just think he's running himself right into the ground.

NixonWell, I tell you, we'll do the IMF Monday, and Yep. New York Tuesday, and California Wednesday.

ColsonIt's going to be a busy week. But they won't, we're not going to do much politics. I'm just going to be talk about nothing, these places.

ColsonWell, you've got I mean that's I think it's a good calendar. I've gone all through it along with Yeah. There isn't going to be anything that's particularly be meaty as far as folks are concerned, because

Nixonthe $1,000 dinners, Chuck, I've I've always felt fundraisers are losers politically, that's why. Oh, hell, no question. I never want to do them, and Maury doesn't understand that, but anyway. We've done them.

ColsonYou have to, and it's every It isn't the best thing, but it still isn't isn't going to hurt you. Right. Yeah.

NixonBut I just wanted you to know that I thought your Oh, well, thank you. your call on the thing was right. I mean, I I didn't know about it, but when I I thought about it after being in

NixonLaredo and these other places, well, what the heck? We, I I'd go there to, if somebody, Pete Flanigan said we've got

Nixon200 businessmen in the White House, we show, and I'd be over there giving them, you know, 25 minutes or so. Well, what the hell?

ColsonHell, no. These Why not these kids? Yeah, and this uh the And also they they they The impact of this going out out around the country, you'll That's right.

ColsonYou'll see it. It This is a hell of an effect and Right. good pictures, because they're the right kind of people that Right.

Colsonto be doing it. That's the new majority. Get in your swim. Okay, sir. Thank you, Mr. President.

Nixon phone call with Colson on 1972 campaign and George McGovern

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Also recorded on September 23, 1972

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Nixon phone call with Colson on 1972 campaign and George McGovern

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on September 23, 1972

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