Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 154 › Conversation 154-005

Nixon phone call with Colson on 1972 presidential campaign and Amnesty

Saturday, September 23, 1972 · 5:32 PM–5:59 PM ET · Camp David Study Table ·6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.Conversation154-005 onTape 154StartSaturday, September 23, 1972 at 5:32 PMEndSaturday, September 23, 1972 at 5:59 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 154-005 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson strategized on how to leverage the 1972 campaign issues of amnesty and drug policy to contrast the administration's stance with that of George McGovern. They discussed painting McGovern as 'soft' on marijuana legalization and desertion, specifically coordinating efforts to emphasize that deserters must face penalties for their actions. The President approved ongoing efforts to keep these topics in the public discourse, including support for legislative proposals regarding citizenship revocation for those who fled the country.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Mr. President?
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
I have Mr. Colson for you, sir.
Go ahead, please.
Hello.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Well, Stu and I deliberately got in some of the foreign policy and the amnesty stuff and so forth because they need to hear that.
I mean, they believe that, and we just may as well lay that out there.
We'll get McGovern talking about it.
Oh, I think we will.
I think we're going to see him talk about amnesty.
I think that's what he wants one of these half hours for, that he's trying to buy.
And defense and amnesty, I think he's worried about it.
What can he say about it?
I don't know what he can do with amnesty other than to try to do a musky-type speech where he tries to prove how completely fair and, you know, he'll try to fudge it up.
I'm sure he'll try to fudge it up and say, well, we'll have him work in a peace corps.
Ah, ah, ah, sir, hell no.
These poor bastards have got chopped and worked in a peace corps.
That's right.
You know, he can't get off the issue.
The only thing he can do is, if he tries to take the sting out of it, he may make it worse by talking about it.
I guess the best thing he could do really is duck the whole land issue entirely.
Yeah.
Either that or change its position.
Well, no, I don't think he can't do that.
Well, he'd change it on the schools.
Yeah, I think that on that one he'd have a hell of a problem with the kids.
Yeah, that's one they believe in, don't they?
Yeah, that's one they really do.
Now, he's got to go.
You know, Julie was saying that she'd heard McGovern say that he's not for legalizing marijuana.
And I said, what did he say?
He says, well, he wants to treat it like alcohol.
I said, that's legalizing it.
That's right.
Alcohol is legal.
I don't think he can get off of that, do you?
No, what he said is that in that Playboy interview a year ago, which we've hung around his neck about eight times, and he keeps referring to it.
Good.
He talked there about wanting to...
legalize it.
And then he switched his position to say that he wanted to reduce it from a felony to a misdemeanor as a possession of it.
And that's what he's talking about, that he's not in favor of legalizing it.
He still would leave it a misdemeanor.
But that's a pretty fine, I mean, that's a pretty fine point for people.
The man on the street doesn't understand the difference between the felony misdemeanor.
Sophisticates and lawyers and others do.
And maybe reducing the penalties he
He can get away with it.
He's still stuck.
Well, actually, I'm for modification of penalties in many areas, but I don't talk about it anymore.
Exactly.
Well, sure, it's a responsible position to reduce some of the penalties, but... Yeah.
Well, the trouble he has, Mr. President, with an issue like that is that you can't ever get rid of the impression, and it may not be...
It's fair in his case because these are all his positions, but he can't get away from them because he's got the...
the impression that he's soft.
And boy, nobody who watched you on television last night talking about drug pushes or watched you Monday night.
We've had a good week on drugs.
By God, if we don't have that issue.
We've got that.
We at least have said it twice on TV time, haven't we?
All three nights and two nights this week have had at least two minutes, some up to three, of this issue.
We've also gotten pretty good coverage out of our people hitting him,
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
The thing we've got to be on Amnesty, we've all got to be exactly the same.
And the thing we've got to say is what I said there, that people who desert must pay a penalty.
Right.
use the word penalty so that it doesn't look like they're just going to come back, you know, because, and they should.
That's right.
God darn it, it's wrong for anybody to come back.
They're going to come back, as Lincoln said, by God, they can serve a number of days they're out of the country in prison.
Well, we've got some press people going up to Canada this week to do interviews with the kids up there who will all be casting their absentee ballots from the government.
Right.
I think we might get some stories up there.
I think we ought to take away their citizenship.
Well, Barry Goldwater is proposing that in a speech tomorrow, a statement that went out this afternoon for tomorrow.
Why shouldn't we?
That's right.
He's going to say they've deserted the country and they should try the rights of citizens to vote.
We'll see a little bit on that.
Keep it alive.
Right.
At this point, it doesn't matter really how we do it, just as long as there are people talking about it.
We've got Kleinjeet speaking.
Good.
We've got our lower wikers really taking off on this issue.
He said he went around Connecticut.
Maybe I told you this, but
But through the state, he didn't do anything except talk about amnesty in the government.
And he said, my God, he was getting responses from the crowd.
So now he wants to do something legislatively.
He wants to put in a bill that will make kind of... Wiker of all people.
Wiker, yeah.
Well, you see, that's what's happening.
And these people are catching on to it.

NARA Description

On September 23, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 5:32 pm to 5:59 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 154-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 154-5

Date: September 23, 1972
Time: 5:32 pm - 5:59 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation no. 213-10]

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 4s      ]

                                    (rev. Oct-06)

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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          Issues
              -Foreign policy and amnesty
                  -The President’s positions

          1972 campaign
              -George S. McGovern
                  -Position on amnesty and foreign policies
                  -Colson's analysis
                      -Possible air time purchase
                      -Defense
                      -Edmund S. Muskie type speech by McGovern
                           -Peace Corps
                      -Schools

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 57s        ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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          Issues
              -McGovern's campaign
                 -Marijuana issue
                    -Observation by Julie Nixon Eisenhower
                          -Legalization of marijuana
                    -Similarity to legality of alcohol
                    -Earlier Playboy Magazine interview
                          -George Meany

                                    (rev. Oct-06)

                       -Penalty for possession of marijuana
                            -Reduction
                            -Knowledge of legal terms by man on street
                            -Reduction
              -Marijuana issue
                  -Reduction of penalty
              -McGovern and marijuana issue
                  -Impression
                  -Television coverage on this issue
                       -The President’s September 22, 1972 and September 18, 1972
                       statements
              -Drug issue during campaign
                  -The President's position
                       -Television coverage
                            -Myles J. Ambrose
              -Press coverage on drug issue, amnesty issue
                  -Richard G. Kleindienst
              -Amnesty issue
                  -Desertion and penalty
                       -Abraham Lincoln
                  -Interviews in Canada
                       -Absentee ballot for McGovern
                  -Citizenship status
                       -Speech by Barry M. Goldwater
                  -Statement by Kleindienst
                  -Statement by Lowell P. Weiker, Jr.
                       -Tour of Connecticut
                            -Response from crowd
                                -Possible legislative action

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 19m 5s     ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

                                        (rev. Oct-06)

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Also recorded on September 23, 1972

  • 154-003 4:50 PM · 12 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 4:50 pm to 5:10 pm.
  • 213-003 4:50 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at 4:50 pm.
  • 154-004 5:10 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:10 pm and 5:32 pm.
  • 213-007 5:10 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Julie Nixon Eisenhower met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:10 pm and 5:32 pm.
  • 213-008 5:10 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:10 pm and 5:32 pm.
  • 213-009 5:10 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:10 pm and 5:32 pm.
  • 213-010 5:32 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 5:32 pm to 5:59 pm.
  • 213-011 5:59 PM · 13 sec — Julie Nixon Eisenhower and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:59 pm and 11:00 pm.

All 16 conversations from September 23, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 154-005, September 23, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/154-005 (accessed September 18, 2026).