Nixon phone call with Colson on Second term reorganization

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Mr. Colson.

Your service, President.

Got all, you know, got Brennan launched, right?

Yes, sir.

He'll be in his office and ready to meet the press when they hear that.

And, I mean, you, but the main thing is you made the necessary calls that Meany, I mean, Schultz to Meany, and you called the rest, right?

Yes, sir.

They've all been covered.

Did you cover Rizal for me?

Yes, sir.

Just hung up from Rizal about 10 minutes ago, and he was, of course, he wasn't able to get a dance story on it.

Well, I guess that's right.

We don't want him to have a dance story.

It would have been a very bad signal.

It would have been bad for us.

Oh, good, good.

And I told Vic that you had wanted that, but we couldn't get the clearances done in time.

Good, good.

You came out.

But at least he was pleased.

Oh, he was very pleased.

Right.

All right.

Here's about his exit.

Right, right, right.

Now, and we're on.

I just got a message that you wanted me to come with you tomorrow.

Yeah.

Which is fine.

And I want you and him and Ehrlichman to—I'm going to be very busy there because I've got Schultz all morning on the economics and I've got Connolly and I've got Henry Saturday.

But I want you and Ehrlichman and you and Haldeman mainly and Ehrlichman to a less extent, although in the case of justice, too.

sit down and work out some of the game plans with regard to not only the outside operation but also the political cloud in

do what kind of a facility we're going to have them in so far.

Great.

But I think getting away, to think about it a bit, this is a good time for you to go anyway, isn't it?

You've got the time, haven't you?

Oh, I'd love to get away.

But I mean, there isn't really anything we have to do right now.

I mean, now that Brennan is launched.

Yeah, I've got most things on track.

Well, I'm doing a lot of things on the second level of personnel, which if you bother with...

They'll discuss that.

I'm staying out of that as much as I can.

I'm just so busy with these other things.

that we can bring in at the... We got the Webster thing on the track, you know.

That's marvelous.

You're going to be... Oh, listen, I'm telling you.

That's going to be like a breath of fresh air, Mr. President.

He just is a... We're having a hell of a time with Clint East.

He doesn't want to change anybody.

He always wanted to keep Griswold.

Oh, you're kidding.

Griswold?

Yes.

Isn't Griswold 70?

Griswold is not only 70, Mr. President, but Webster, who's an alumnus of Harvard Law School, wrote Griswold during the campaign to bitch about the fact that the whole Harvard Law School faculty had come out from a government, and Griswold wrote back and said...

You could be spending your time more profitably worrying about other things.

I mean, a nasty letter like that, I have that letter.

Would you get that letter to Burlequin, please?

Yes, sir.

Because he could use it.

That kind of thing is just, to me, is appalling.

That's right.

Get that thing to him.

It just shows you exactly what he's up to.

Well, of course.

I mean, I think Quintius is ridiculous to do that because it's going to be appreciative you're keeping him.

Well, we're only keeping him for a reason, as you know.

Oh, I know.

Until he gets through his hearing.

Sure, but I would, yeah, yeah.

Well, fine.

When do we finally come out on the count?

Have we ever got the final count yet?

Well, I got an updated one.

Yeah, you've got so many.

This one I'm reasonably confident is correct because I've made people talk directly to the Secretary of State.

Half of the states are certified.

Half are uncertified.

Do they ask them when they certify?

Now, does this include the absentees?

You see, some of these people...

Okay.

Yeah, they're checking that.

And...

There are some states where they're finding problems.

You know, they've got some people, machines broke down, all that.

I know.

But it is 61.1 as of today.

And that's what the most accurate thing is people can give us.

It's 61.1, but we don't know whether it's 61.101 or 61.08.

It comes out 61.10.

37.5 for McGovern, 1.4 for Schmitz.

And then you're pretty close to having what we want.

You're going to end up that way.

I'm positive.

I'll tell you why.

Illinois only includes 97%.

And it might slip just a little.

could go a little over that.

I think it will.

What we want to do is shade it a little if we can.

But you're now at 61.1.

Yeah, it might.

I tell you, it's been a real monster to worry about.

When is it going to be done then?

The 15th of December?

They've got to do it then, don't they?

No, they really don't.

Because all they have to do is certify the electors.

You know, they play with these damn numbers.

In Alaska, they tell me that the

They don't get all the votes in until spring.

Oh, okay, fine.

Some of the islands.

But every state, Mr. President, has a final certification date sometime during the month of December.

I talked to Scamma about this.

My own opinion is you're going to go over 61.1.

I think you've got the all-time figure.

I really do.

We don't want to say a bit about it until we get it.

Oh, good God, no.

No stories have been written about it, have they?

No, they haven't.

But the interesting thing, every story I've seen has picked it at 61.1.

which is not bad.

And nobody has, you know, hit the 60.9 or the 60.8.

Yeah.

They're rounding it at 61, but I think it's...

But if we get the 61.1, then it is.

I think that's one hell of a big boost at the end.

Don't you agree?

I think it's tremendous.

And we'll make something out of it.

I mean, that's the kind of thing where you're... Easy.

You know, you can write... For example, that Buchanan piece last week, I don't know whether you read it, but it kind of had to come off.

The Legend of St. George McGovern.

It was spectacular.

The New York Times gave it a hell of a play.

Now other columnists are writing from it.

What was the theme of it, Chuck?

I've given him four to write.

I wanted him to get some of the positive ones out, but I guess he got the negative first because he's more interested now.

That's the dirtiest campaign in history.

Oh, good.

Well, you see, what it did... That's fine.

That's positive.

Well, what it did was that Dick Wilson then wrote columns about it, which goes through his syndicate, and Howard K. Smith is referred to it.

And it's begun, unfortunately, the goddamn New York Times op-ed page has been impacted.

I'm sorry, because nine times out of ten it's against us, but this time we used it.

I've been amazed at the number of pick-ups and quotes from it, and it's worked its way into other stories.

It was brilliantly written, of course.

It was a passion, and it was extremely effective.

But what we could do, you see, when this happens, is we'll have some... And we had that put in my reading file for Florida, were you?

Yes, sir.

Fine, fine.

Frankly, I'm not reading a news summary, because I've got to concentrate on more important things at the moment.

Right, of course you do.

It is up in any way.

I'm very excited about Brennan.

I just think that's going to give us some color and excitement.

Sure.

God, he's a gutsy, tough guy.

Right, right.

Well, you get on the plane and then, as I said, I won't see any of you, as a matter of fact, but I want you to get down there and...

I want you to work up the list of people to stay the hell out.

I want you to get up what we're going to do in the foundation.

I want you to work on the business about who we keep in.

I want you to get down to these people that are, you know what I mean?

You know the things to do.

Fine, because everybody is all quick and long now, and it's coming now that we got past the big ones.

I think it's coming beautifully.

I took Brenninger today.

Brenninger is good, because we just had to have somebody to run it.

And Volpe's agreed to take Italy, so that takes care of that.

Brenninger is an Irish Catholic from California.

Hell yes.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Hell yes.

Well, that name, I thought he was a German.

No, an Irish Catholic from California.

Oh, well, that's great.

My God, we get to Brennan and Brenninger.

That's great.

That's right.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah.

And...

Assuming, and this is one that we just can't talk about because of gold sensitivities until we work it out, but with Scali at the UN, an Italian Catholic Democrat in the cabinet.

Yeah, that's great.

You've got three.

You've got two Democrats and three Catholics.

No, four with Ash.

That's right, four with Ash.

And, well, and frankly, Mr. President, we're going to, at the second tier, we're going to start really doing some things right.

We've accumulated—I didn't want to go there yesterday.

No, I didn't want you to, because I want you fellows to all go into that, and I'm not revenge.

But remember, be sure the South gets in there.

Be sure women get in there.

There's one—on the black thing, I have an idea about one woman black from the U.N. that I think we can put in as—which would be great.

It takes care of both of them.

Sure.

Well, we're really moving to build... Brennan feels good about going on.

Oh, great.

He's just... Good.

And Fitz feels good.

Yeah, Fitz is thrilled because... Paul.

Paul.

First rate, 100%.

Sure.

The thing is, we're really building... We really are going to build a permanent new majority.

That's it.

I'm absolutely convinced of it, Mr. President.

I gave Florida hell yesterday.

I said, no, Jerry.

He's supposed to haul, but he wants to do some things on the NLRB.

Of course, the NLRB, I think we can even get Brennan to go on and along on that a bit.

But the main point is, I said, Jerry, there isn't going to be any anti-labor legislation.

I want you to know that.

I'm not going to have any.

See?

I hope Ford didn't hit you on the fanning appointment, because we've already committed that to— Who's fanning?

He didn't mention anything.

Okay, good.

That's it.

Don't forget it.

Don't tell me about it.

No.

Bye.

We'll see you tomorrow and plan to stay a couple days.

Wonderful.

Bye.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Bye.

Incidentally, you can work it out with Holloman in terms of the logistics.

You can take your wife, too.

I'd love to do that.

Just tell them.

See if you can tell them.

You just tell them what you want.

Yes, sir.

And if they've got room, they'll put them in.

Okay.

Bye.

Thank you, sir.

Nixon phone call with Colson on Second term reorganization

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on November 29, 1972

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