Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 158-004
Date: Thursday, December 28, 1972 at 9:41 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: Camp David Study Table
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/158-004

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hello.
[0:03] Hello.
[0:06] I wanted to know if you were able to reach either Russia or Russia.
[0:16] We're seeing Russia is in the Bahamas.
[0:19] So I think we should let that go.
[0:20] Russia, we will notify at 8.15 tomorrow morning because we found out that the timing is done.
[0:23] That they don't have to give the orders until 9.
[0:25] All right.
[0:26] And we'll see Mora simultaneously.
[0:40] Right.
[0:40] We've had a general talk with Mora, but Mora's got more interest, to be told, in the presence of RAS.
[0:43] Right.
[0:43] I agree.
[0:43] And that way, I tell them, to Mora and Mr. President, they get the messages out tonight, and it's not that it's going to leak it.
[0:46] I agree.
[0:48] I, I, I just want you to tell Mara that I figured you guys in, but I meant, uh, we're asking you to tell her you can tell her tomorrow at the same time.
[1:11] We can draft tonight.
[1:11] But he was, he was, uh, he was away, and he preferred to be seen.
[1:13] He knows we tried to get him tonight.
[1:14] And, uh, so I called him first thing in the morning.
[1:15] Now, draft is going to be back.
[1:16] I'm going to ask him who he is, so we'll tell Alex that tomorrow afternoon.
[1:21] Now, I've been thinking about my own position.
[1:43] I'm inclined to think that I don't have a lot of time to come up here.
[1:45] I think he should make this announcement.
[1:46] I don't want to bring it up.
[1:46] I think he should do everything he can, but I don't want to bring it up.
[1:48] I don't want to bring it up.
[1:48] And he should do it.
[1:49] He has to make that announcement.
[1:49] He's going to make that a little too late here.
[1:50] Exactly.
[1:51] It should be in the lowest e-way parking position.
[2:06] My instinct is to be quite honest with you, that what they did to us last time was that they got the attention to the very eagerness.
[2:17] That's true, but the more low-key
[2:19] since it will be in the White House anyway, I think your personal involvement is... Well, if I do that, I'll just have to go down.
[2:36] No, no, that would be worse.
[2:38] That's the problem.
[2:40] It's choice between you going down and his going up.
[2:41] Yeah.
[2:41] There's no doubt that it's better for him to go up.
[2:43] It would be very sad for you to go down.
[2:44] Well, that's the problem.
[2:45] Because the thing is that it would have to be...
[2:47] It would have to be...
[2:48] But I think that would come across in any way.
[3:13] So I'm thinking about it that way.
[3:14] If you want to deny it, maybe you have to.
[3:14] Or you may have to go up to me to another person.
[3:15] But I'm thinking about it that way.
[3:16] So keep that in mind.
[3:17] But I think he'll pay for it later.
[3:35] Absolutely not.
[3:36] Well, it's no big thing.
[3:36] He can do it in 10 days or so.
[3:37] But I think, frankly, we should keep you
[3:38] I mean, it should be clear that it's you, but what we should do is to keep it in such a way that they, that right now they are the anxious ones for the first time again.
[3:57] Yeah.
[3:58] And the message looks as if we needed this.
[3:58] That's true.
[3:59] The poor, it will pay off later on, and one mistake we made.
[4:00] The way to get it quickly is to see the difference.
[4:21] And that's why if we did it in the most lateral course, low P, very positive.
[4:23] We'll tell them that is.
[4:41] I think it would be very bad for you to go down.
[4:42] I don't want to go down.
[4:43] I don't want to go down.
[4:43] I don't want to go down.
[4:44] I think any event it would be a White House announcement.
[4:54] I don't think anybody else is going to be able to do that.
[5:10] I don't think anybody else is going to be able to do that.
[5:11] I don't think anybody else is going to be able to do that.
[5:27] That's the only supplement the President and I can be candid.
[5:47] My experience with the cement operation is they are trying to be concerned with their immediate problem.
[5:54] If we miss the next round, we're just not going to get it at all.
[6:07] It's already been a half of what I was thinking about.
[6:09] They do it in a very low key way.
[6:10] It's already been a half of what I was thinking about.
[6:14] It's already been a half of what I was thinking about.
[6:23] I think it's always just no, no conversation.
[6:44] That's why I didn't let out of them, other than I don't hear from these guys, because they would, we wouldn't, we wouldn't be out in front of them.
[6:47] Oh, no, I, I don't think we could talk to them, I don't.
[6:48] Yeah, yeah.
[6:48] Or if you, if you would call anybody to hear that, because they want to know where you are, what you're doing, and you're, and you, and that's very, very important.
[6:52] Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry about it.
[6:52] I'm not, I'm not going to do it.
[6:56] Right.
[7:23] Right.
[7:27] They have to know how to wait.
[7:52] They have to know how to wait.
[7:53] There's no way we can avoid letting them know.
[7:54] They have to know how to wait.
[7:54] Well, they need it.
[7:55] They need it.
[7:55] I don't know if they can do it.
[7:56] I don't know if they can do it.
[7:56] I don't know if they can do it.
[7:57] I don't know.
[8:03] That's right.
[8:32] Right.
[8:32] Right.
[8:33] If you let Helms know a couple of hours, he will run you the way.
[8:52] Tell him he's out of the country with Mexico, he's already gone.
[8:54] I wouldn't want him.
[8:54] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[9:05] I think the best thing is to not try to interpret it because everybody's going to be everywhere after you, and it would be really handy.
[9:26] I won't try anything.
[9:32] I think we should keep it.
[9:57] I don't.
[9:57] I don't.
[9:57] I don't.
[9:57] I don't.
[9:58] I don't.
[9:58] I don't.
[9:59] And that's all.
[10:25] And that's all.
[10:25] Exactly.
[10:26] I think that is the moment.
[10:26] Right.
[10:26] I'd be so constrained on this because the United States has the military in need.
[10:29] So you want to bring that, but I just want to be straight.
[10:55] I don't want to be straight in the question.
[10:56] Fairly late.
[10:56] Fairly quick.
[10:56] Right.
[10:57] Right.
[10:57] Exactly.
[10:57] Okay.
[10:59] Right.
[11:27] Right.
[11:27] Right.
[11:27] Yes, I can protect the Kennedy, but he has to get there tomorrow afternoon.
[11:30] to Kennedy's in Texas.
[11:37] I'll be announcing on the air in two to the one time.
[11:38] That's all.
[11:39] Oh, good.
[12:00] I've already done that.
[12:20] Thank you.
[12:31] Whatever they say, we'll just have to hold our time.
[12:48] You know, the problem we don't have, as you can imagine, is that there's a lot of people that tend to, you know, the president, the senator, the one that's going to clarify those and all that stuff.
[12:52] That's what they say, uh, standard.
[13:11] Finally, they say that we're conscious now that the country's stable in the Middle East.
[13:33] As a matter of fact, that's the only way to go there.
[13:34] Exactly.
[13:34] They all said that nobody expects the negotiations to be reduced so soon.
[13:35] Everyone is waiting for Congress to be all over.
[13:36] Oh, it is?
[13:37] Yes.
[13:37] We'll see what the Congress says now.
[13:37] I don't think they can do anything before the negotiations are reduced.
[13:39] What can they do if they want to negotiate?
[13:53] Well, Mr. President, the facts are they won't really be back until the 4th.
[13:56] I'll be leaving until the 7th.
[13:57] On the 8th, I'll be actually negotiating.
[13:59] Okay.
[14:02] I'm not trying to avoid, for that reason, any kind of a meeting, but any kind of a meeting until after we complete the negotiations, which is going to be goddamn hard, because we've got a lot of defensive stuff that we want to pick up on, you know, a fight party when we leave, and all that sort of stuff.
[14:28] But I think it's just critical not to have any meetings in the middle.
[14:30] That's going to hurt.
[14:31] than, uh, being in a different ballgame anyway.
[14:53] You see what I'm talking about?
[14:54] That I'm talking about is that there's a time limit for us on how we, uh, uh, get, uh, 30, 30 minutes to come back here on the third.
[14:56] Yeah, but they're not going to get organized until this, I mean, people won't come back until the third.
[14:58] Yeah, and then they'll, uh, they'll come back on the third.
[15:07] I think what I would be on that is to let you take care of him.
[15:30] I have to take care of him.
[15:31] That's easy.
[15:31] And you just have to.
[15:32] I can feel it.
[15:32] You see, prior to the time the thing was put down, by the time it was put down, I feel like I'm not going to be able to do anything.
[15:40] Now, I just don't want to see it.
[16:01] No, I can keep max field quiet.
[16:03] At least till I get back.
[16:04] And after that, we don't know where the car's at.
[16:05] It's pretty good that way.
[16:06] I just don't understand about that.
[16:07] No, but it's pretty good.
[16:07] I could give him a general feel.
[16:08] That's good.
[16:08] That's good.
[16:08] Huh?
[16:11] No later than the second, so I can see him on the third.
[16:39] But you could see him on domestic policy, and I could have bring him to some foreign policy.
[16:53] I don't want to, I don't want to be in that situation.
[17:12] I understand why.
[17:15] My instinct is, Mr. President, that it might be wise for you to see him.
[17:16] But if I have seen him served on foreign policy, or if you tell him I will treat him on that, but entirely up to you, I can't judge how he handles himself when you discuss domestic policies.
[17:21] I can certainly, I'm confident I can keep him quiet.
[17:22] Let me just say, knowing that I've got to see him,
[17:29] After this announcement is made, you know, there's going to be, if you can tell me, just one call to them.
[17:51] Right.
[17:52] And tell them that the president is on his way to the region when he returns.
[17:53] Good.
[17:53] You can do that.
[17:54] Absolutely.
[17:54] Now he will, I don't know, I don't know, you just take him on the mountain pass and say, you can tell them, you can do that.
[17:56] All right.
[17:57] And then, and then, and then, and then.
[18:06] Oh, no.
[18:35] Oh, no.
[18:35] Well, I'll call them.
[19:03] I'll call them in seven.
[19:04] Yeah.
[19:04] Well, he may be in Montana himself, but I'll get him located tomorrow.
[19:27] And I'll call him on Saturday morning.
[19:28] And if you want to be free, then let's do that on the day first.
[19:29] Two days first, and then later.
[19:30] Especially if you don't have a lot of money, you've got to get out of that farm soon.
[19:33] I'll take off after 7.
[20:00] Yeah.
[20:06] It's really much better now.
[20:30] Good.
[20:30] These guys.
[20:30] My words to my family is Mr. President, they would have dragged us through two more weeks of it.
[20:53] You see how adamant...
[20:53] I suppose, yeah.
[20:54] I suppose we have only one thing here which isn't good.
[20:55] And that's why we have to play it cool.
[20:56] That's why we have to play it cool.
[20:56] That's why we have to play it cool.
[20:58] I think it's up to two to the eight, Mr. President, because... Well, no, we can't leave while we're bombing, and it takes us five days to get there.
[21:18] I see.
[21:19] And with the humiliation of this going, I'm getting underway while we're bombing.
[21:20] Yes.
[21:20] Wouldn't be too much.
[21:21] That's true.
[21:21] So maybe that is a bad time.
[21:22] Yes.
[21:22] Secondly, to bring it up, because I can tell you this, apparently the Russians are putting them to leave.
[21:24] So...
[21:25] They told them he doesn't know what he's feeling now.
[21:35] Oh, I see.
[21:39] He told me that, and I started laughing.
[21:43] I said, you know, he always feels bad.
[21:45] He said, yes, we thought that too.
[21:48] So they asked us to send a Russian doctor to look at him.
[21:49] Now, unless these guys were in despair, they wouldn't do that.
[21:51] Yeah.
[21:51] I got to go now.
[21:51] Yeah.
[21:51] It'll be a pleasure.
[21:54] So I think the guys, these guys are really, but that's why it's so expensive.
[22:10] I know what you said to me earlier today, Mr. President, is 100% right about our real situation.
[22:16] But I think the only way we can make it go now is because what you've done,
[22:18] Who do these things so matter of factly that you take it for traffic?
[22:37] It's an interesting thing again.
[22:38] We've put everything on the line.
[22:39] We've taken them to their feet.
[22:39] And we've got the money at the bank again.
[22:40] And this is going to go down as one of the really big decisions to make.
[22:42] Because on the other side, there was just no way we could get it done.
[22:49] And, uh... And of course, they were being helped by their friend, Mr. Keith.
[23:11] That's right.
[23:12] But now we've turned on voting.
[23:12] And in terms of timing, Mr. President, if they had any other choice, hell, they'd let go of the bombing for four years.
[23:15] It demanded an unprofessional end to the bombing.
[23:16] Yeah.
[23:16] Supposing they had said, we've got to stop bombing altogether.
[23:17] Yeah.
[23:17] Uh, the way the media was ranking up, we would have seen it...
[23:19] We would have had hell to pay.
[23:34] Yes.
[23:34] They sell you a hat now.
[23:35] Now, I don't think you want to do it, but even if you had a job out here, you'd buy two or three big breadsticks from your domestic critics because nobody would now know what time you're old.
[23:56] I shall do that.