Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 158 › Conversation 158-035

Nixon phone call with Colson on Vietnam War and Congressional relations

Saturday, December 30, 1972 · 9:53 AM–10:02 AM ET · Camp David Study Table · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation158-035 on Tape 158StartSaturday, December 30, 1972 at 9:53 AMEndSaturday, December 30, 1972 at 10:02 AMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 158-035 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles W. Colson coordinated the strategy for notifying Congressional leaders regarding the cessation of U.S. bombing north of the 20th parallel in Vietnam. The conversation focused on ensuring that outreach efforts by William Timmons and Henry Kissinger were synchronized to avoid duplicate calls to key figures like Hugh Scott. They also discussed managing political fallout, particularly addressing potential criticisms from congressional "mavericks" and handling media relations to maintain public support.

Audio

Download MP3 · 12.5 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 6 minutes of this recording (about 66% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Hello.
Good morning, Mr. President.
Is that everything all set for today?
Yes, sir, I think so.
We've got some young fellows who may be out of dispatch to 15th and... How about the, uh, how about the, uh, Cameron?
I just talked to Cameron, sir.
Talked to him a little while ago.
And, uh, Kennedy has also talked to, uh, Colonel Kennedy.
And he is going to call Henry right now just to see who Henry has called.
Bill thought he would like to call some of the leaders.
He said some of the people that he had dealt with, he said he, for example, used to have him on the phone just for quite a while.
Because he was moaning about things.
Yeah.
So he'd like to call Scott and do an idea of what Henry would like to say.
I'd like to send him some money, but he doesn't know how to handle it.
But Henry would just better always know what Henry is.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Right.
You've got to be there.
Well, Kennedy, Colonel Kennedy had called him about 45 minutes ago.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just told him about an hour ago.
I don't know.
Oh, he said he's been, you know, he's been front.
He's been holding hands with him for the eight years that I wasn't known.
I didn't
I said, no, it's fine.
He's just 30 years.
He's actually going to take the heat off of him.
He's going to go to Fulbright, and that's where I'm going to want to head to next week.
I'm going to head to Drew and Roger and everybody else.
And I still was uncertain about what this would do.
I just wanted to be there to tell them.
I just want to hold it in until I know I'm going to be able to go up there.
It's just not worth the negotiation.
I don't have to hold them, I think, for the rest of the three years.
You're going to go over there and be there when the briefing takes place.
You're going to go over there and be there when the briefing takes place.
Are you ready to join in?
Yeah, I'm ready to join in.
No, I think we're going to get you out of there, but I'd like to get to you first.
Well, I'll listen to it.
I'll probably just go in and we'll call you if you'd like.
Maybe.
No, I'd rather call you right after the beep.
Actually, I'll tell you.
I'll give you a ring on the back, but let's get you in there.
It's good.
I'll try to get you out of there.
Yeah, I'll do it.
I'll let you know when I get there.
But then we were like riding, riding home to the meeting room.
I mean, you know, you're there after you do that.
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,
This is one I haven't thought of doing.
I don't know.
Now we're assuming you're saying
The intensity of the feeling is very, very low.
Well, I think they're getting ready for next week.
I think they thought they were going to have to spill the blood.
You know, I think they probably figured it out.
They left them and they're going to have to run it back.
I think they're going to have to run it back.
That's exactly right.
So they're going to have to do that.
Why don't you get into it?
Well, Sexty has always been sort of a maverick.
He'll shoot up his mic like that.
You know, he did on the war and things.
Before, after, and then the fifth, and then the seventh, and then the sixth.
Sure, and then he said he's planning to change his mind.
He's double-crossed it on Carry's way, remember?
He said he just wrote her a letter, and then we wrote a photo, and then went the other way.
That is incredible, brother.
But, uh, I told Scott, I mean, he's got one of the phones that I threw out.
He said it makes him sound like he's in a plan, but who the hell is going to call him?
Well, I just pushed it and did it.
That's right.
Well, they like to be stroked.
Scott has to be called.
Timmons will call Scott.
But I told Bill to call Kissinger Group to be sure that they were not calling the same people.
In other words, Timmons, for example, says that Kissinger should not call Timmons.
That's why they're here.
That's right.
That's why they're here.
But the kind of people that need to be called, they've got to go right away.
Yeah, that's really it.
The flight's just incidentally right.
So you've got to make the option.
You've got to do it.
All this flight's just going around.
That's not the flight.
That's the flight.
It was only a phase that became unserious.
All of that is going to be worth about $1,000.
This is provided they don't
No, it's not it.
No, hell no.
It's not a credible line.
I mean, that lead of UPI and the cargo at night, night, night, night, night, night, night, night, night, night, night, night, night, night.
The thing is though, we just want to make sure we don't get any intruders, because we're going to hit them on the ground here.
But they're going to come in if you like, give me that first view, and just say to them, how is that going to be?
I don't know, but I'll just ask them to react to what they're going to be doing, but that's depending on you and what you've got to do in the reaction.
I just give it to them, we'll be all right, we'll be back in a bit.

NARA Description

On December 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 9:53 am to 10:02 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 158-035 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 158-35

Date: December 30, 1972
Time: 9:53 am - 10:02 am
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 237-44]

       Vietnam War
            -US bombing of North Vietnam
                 -Demonstration
                      -Dean Francis B. Sayre
                             -Response
                 -Cessation north of 20th Parallel
                      -Notification of Congress
                             -William E. Timmons
                                   -Conversations with Colson and Col. Richard T. Kennedy
                                   -Call to Henry A. Kissinger
                                          -Kissinger’s telephone call
                                   -Telephone calls
                                -42-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                 Conversation No. 158-35 (cont’d)

                              -Hugh Scott
                              -Kissinger’s telephone calls
                                    -The President’s conversation with Kissinger
                        -Kennedy
     -Congressional relations
          -Possible hearings
                 -William Fulbright
                 -Dr. Thomas E. (“Doc”) Morgan
                 -Kissinger, William P. Rogers
                        -Negotiations
                              -Colson’s conversation with Timmons
     -Cessation north of 20th Parallel
          -John A. Scali
                 -Telephone calls
          -Announcement
                 -Scali
                 -Colson
                        -Gerald L. Warren
                 -Public relations [PR]
                        -Colson’s possible call to the President
                        -The President’s possible call to Colson
                              -Timing
                                    -Scali
-US bombing of North Vietnam
     -Congressional relations
          -Media relations
          -William B. Saxbe’s statements
                 -Response
                        -Timmon’s possible call to Saxbe
                        -Thomas C. Korologos
                        -Donald E. Lukens
                              -Compared to Samuel L. Devine
     -Hubert H. Humphrey
          -Statement
     -PR
          -Albert E. Sindlinger’s poll
          -Intensity
     -Congressional relations
          -Reconvention
                          -43-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                           Conversation No. 158-35 (cont’d)

            -Timing
     -1972 election
     -Humphrey
     -Saxbe’s statements
            -Previous statements and actions
                   -G. Harrold Carswell vote
                          -Letter
                   -Response
                          -Hugh Scott
                       th
-Cessation north of 20 Parallel
     -Notification of Congress
            -Scott
                   -Possible call from Kissinger
            -Kissinger’s telephone calls
                   -The President’s instructions
                   -Timmons’s telephone calls
     -Timmons’s telephone calls
            -Scott
            -Kissinger’s telephone calls
                   -Colson’s conversation with Timmons
                   -John C. Stennis
            -Stennis
                   -Liberals
            -Scott
            -Gerald R. Ford
            -Michael J. Mansfield
            -Stennis
            -F. Edward Hebert
            -Carl B. Albert
            -Leaders
-The President’s decision
     -Explanation
            -Scali
            -The President’s May 8, 1972 decision
                   -Bombing and mining north of 20th Parallel
                          -Suspension
                                -Negotiations
                                      -Tone
                          -Resumption
                                                -44-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                              Conversation No. 158-35 (cont’d)

                  -Cessation north of 20th Parallel
                       -Announcement
                              -Press relations
                                    -Scali’s view
                                    -Wires
                              -Saigon
                                    -United Press International [UPI] article
                                    -Reaction
                                           -Tone

Also recorded on December 30, 1972

  • 158-034 9:41 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:41 am and 9:53 am.
  • 237-042 9:41 AM · 28 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:41 am and 9:53 am.
  • 237-044 9:53 AM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 9:53 am to 10:02 am.
  • 158-036 10:02 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:02 am and 10:04 am.
  • 237-045 10:02 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:02 am and 10:04 am.
  • 158-037 10:04 AM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 10:04 am to 10:12 am.
  • 237-046 10:04 AM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 10:04 am to 10:12 am.
  • 158-038 10:12 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:12 am and 10:54 am.

All 64 conversations from December 30, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 158-035, December 30, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/158-035 (accessed October 10, 2026).