{"conversationCode":"162-008","tapeNumber":162,"conversationNumber":8,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-162-008","startDateTime":"1973-02-24T18:36:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-02-24T23:10:00.000Z","startDate":"24-Feb-1973","startTime":"1:36 PM","endDate":"24-Feb-1973","endTime":"6:10 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Camp David Operator;","description":"On February 24, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:36 pm and 6:10 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 162-008 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDST","recordingDevice":"Camp David Study Table","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":"5.4","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part IV","chronReleaseDate":"8-Dec-2010","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 162-8\n\nDate: February 24, 1973\nTime: 6:10 pm-6:16 pm\nLocation: Camp David Study Table\n\nThe President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.\n\n       Kissinger's visit to New York\n              -Theater\n              -Meeting with Egyptians\n                       -Hafiz Ismail\n\n       Press relations\n               -James B. (“Scooty) Reston's article\n                       -Favorable tone\n               -New York Times article on prisoners of war [POWs]\n                       -President's reaction\n                       -POW’s reply\n\f                                    - 5 -\n\n            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                        Conversation No. 162-8 (cont’d)\n\n               -Seymour M. Hersh\n                       -President's opinion\n                       -Communist\n               -POW’s response\n       -Reston\n       -William R. Hearst, Jr.\n               -Opinions\n                       -Support for the President\n                               -People's Republic of China [PRC]\n                               -Harry S. Truman\nLaos Air Strikes\n       -Effectiveness\n       -Further strikes\n               -Gen. Vang Pao\n               -Size\nCambodia\n       -Air Strike\n               -Size\n               -Press relations\n                       -Network reactions\n                               -Laos\n                               -Cease-fire\nKissinger’s meeting with the French ambassador\n       -George J.R. Pompidou\n       -Ambassador’s reaction\nKissinger’s meeting for next day\n       -State Department\n       -Israel\n               -Hard line policy\n       -Egypt\n               -Position\n                       -Peace treaty\n               -Cease-fire\n               -Palestinians\n       -Israel\n               -Airplane incident\n                       -Handling\n\f                                      - 6 -\n\n            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                   Conversation No. 162-8 (cont’d)\n\n                                -Melvin R. Laird\n               -Yitzhak Rabin\n                        -Golda Meir\n                        -Election\n       -Politics\n       -US initiatives\nKissinger’s visit to the theater\n       -Noel Coward\nKissinger’s dinner\n       -La Cote Basque\n       -Unknown woman","filename":["162-008.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Camp David Operator"],"prevCode":"162-007","nextCode":"163-001","transcript":[{"start":0.67,"end":1.19,"text":"Hello, Henry."},{"start":1.71,"end":2.57,"text":"Mr. President."},{"start":2.59,"end":3.17,"text":"You're in New York?"},{"start":3.62,"end":6.52,"text":"Yes, I went up here this afternoon."},{"start":6.54,"end":8.2,"text":"Well, how do you find things up there?"},{"start":9.28,"end":10.96,"text":"Well, so far I haven't been anywhere."},{"start":10.98,"end":14.71,"text":"I'm going to the theater tonight, and then tomorrow I'm meeting with the Egyptians."},{"start":14.72,"end":15.21,"text":"Oh, fine."},{"start":16.35,"end":20.37,"text":"Did you see the Reston article yesterday, Mr. President, by any chance?"},{"start":20.87,"end":21.51,"text":"No, I didn't."},{"start":21.63,"end":23.19,"text":"I don't bother with that, you know."},{"start":23.23,"end":24.59,"text":"No, it was very favorable."},{"start":24.91,"end":26.88,"text":"You're right."},{"start":26.9,"end":28.22,"text":"Very interesting."},{"start":28.26,"end":30.68,"text":"Well, I was really so..."},{"start":30.66,"end":52.87,"text":"frankly uh distressed but i mean yeah the rest of the things on the back page and the times running that disgraceful article on the pows i just thought that was about a shocking bit of god damn journalism i ever saw but they talked the reply of these pows was really impressive it was it was great but i mean the times to do that you know by this fellow hirsch is a son of a bitch"},{"start":52.85,"end":55.98,"text":"Well, you know, he's probably a communist agent."},{"start":56.02,"end":57.5,"text":"Exactly, exactly."},{"start":57.52,"end":60.06,"text":"And I just thought it was shocking the New York Times had run that."},{"start":60.2,"end":60.72,"text":"Oh, it was."},{"start":60.76,"end":61.4,"text":"What do you think?"},{"start":61.48,"end":66.39,"text":"I mean, he was picking at Henry right out of the whole cloth."},{"start":66.41,"end":68.59,"text":"No, but to me, they..."},{"start":68.65,"end":70.78,"text":"Didn't you really think the POWs did well, though?"},{"start":70.82,"end":71.3,"text":"The POWs?"},{"start":71.52,"end":73.32,"text":"They smashed him, didn't they?"},{"start":73.34,"end":73.58,"text":"Beautifully."},{"start":73.6,"end":78.27,"text":"This fellow who said, let's raise the flag instead of..."},{"start":80.03,"end":81.46,"text":"interesting thing about Reston."},{"start":81.54,"end":88.37,"text":"I mean, his convictions are appalling, but he can usually judge which way the trend in the country is."},{"start":88.53,"end":89.31,"text":"Yeah, yeah."},{"start":89.33,"end":95.02,"text":"And when he starts praising you, that means that he figures he better get on the bandwagon."},{"start":95.7,"end":98.13,"text":"Oh, is that what he was doing in his article?"},{"start":98.15,"end":99.27,"text":"Bill Hurst had told me about it."},{"start":99.29,"end":100.23,"text":"I saw him yesterday."},{"start":100.27,"end":104.34,"text":"He said it's the greatest foreign policy initiative since the"},{"start":104.32,"end":106.08,"text":"He was talking about China, huh?"},{"start":106.1,"end":111.04,"text":"Since the Truman era, yes, and Nixon deserves the gratitude of his country."},{"start":113.75,"end":115.19,"text":"We're taking anything we can get, huh?"},{"start":115.93,"end":125.46,"text":"What is the situation with regard to, I think, our Laos strike seemed to have been quite effective, wasn't it?"},{"start":125.48,"end":126.58,"text":"Laos strike was effective."},{"start":126.62,"end":128.36,"text":"There's been no other action in this area."},{"start":128.38,"end":134.32,"text":"We authorized another one today, a much smaller one, for Wang Pao's forces."},{"start":134.31,"end":137.88,"text":"if he needed it, but they haven't called for it yet."},{"start":138.86,"end":139.38,"text":"Uh-huh."},{"start":139.4,"end":142.27,"text":"And tonight there's going to be a massive one in Cambodia."},{"start":142.37,"end":144.34,"text":"That's good."},{"start":144.35,"end":146.76,"text":"Well, I told you that's the only thing that we..."},{"start":147.38,"end":148.56,"text":"You know how it is."},{"start":148.62,"end":151.03,"text":"We can get away with these."},{"start":151.05,"end":155.78,"text":"I mean, the network people try to whine and bitch around a bit, but nobody cares."},{"start":156.24,"end":157.4,"text":"I don't think we give one damn."},{"start":157.42,"end":163.89,"text":"I know that the last time you used... You know, one of that's exactly the... You've hit your nail on the head, haven't you?"},{"start":163.91,"end":167.33,"text":"Because, Rudy, the last time they all bitched and got off on the limb, we sawed it off."},{"start":167.35,"end":168.88,"text":"Now this time they're rather wondering, aren't they?"},{"start":168.9,"end":169.5,"text":"Exactly."},{"start":169.52,"end":173.86,"text":"And when they were yelling about Laos right after the ceasefire, it still turned out all right."},{"start":179.12,"end":180.69,"text":"Mm-hmm."},{"start":180.71,"end":185.13,"text":"I had a meeting today with the French ambassador, and I told him about... Oh, yes."},{"start":185.15,"end":186.8,"text":"...the things you and I discussed."},{"start":187.06,"end":188.16,"text":"Oh, good."},{"start":188.28,"end":188.6,"text":"Good."},{"start":188.62,"end":192.93,"text":"If it helps, won't be due."},{"start":193.57,"end":197.01,"text":"And he was extremely appreciative."},{"start":200.48,"end":201.02,"text":"That's good."},{"start":204.24,"end":206.57,"text":"Well, we can..."},{"start":208.84,"end":211,"text":"You're going to meet tomorrow now with all these people."},{"start":211.03,"end":213.83,"text":"I'm going to meet tomorrow afternoon."},{"start":213.87,"end":217.05,"text":"You don't know what went on with their meeting at State, huh?"},{"start":217.25,"end":223.38,"text":"They took a very hard line and nothing really concrete."},{"start":223.4,"end":226.35,"text":"Well, their line couldn't possibly be harder than the Israelis' line."},{"start":226.39,"end":228.69,"text":"I mean, the Israelis, Henry, we've got to realize heaven."},{"start":229.09,"end":231.24,"text":"haven't budged even a third of an inch."},{"start":231.8,"end":236.01,"text":"These people at least have said they'll recognize, you know, they'll make a peace treaty."},{"start":236.25,"end":238.11,"text":"Well, they're saying it in a complicated way."},{"start":238.13,"end":245.53,"text":"They say they'll make a ceasefire and then the peace treaty they'll make if the Palestinians and the Israelis settle."},{"start":245.51,"end":250.6,"text":"Yeah, I know, I know, but being objective, the Israelis haven't moved."},{"start":250.84,"end":252.2,"text":"No, the Israelis haven't moved."},{"start":252.42,"end":253.72,"text":"And they're acting..."},{"start":253.74,"end":256.59,"text":"I mean, the way they've handled this airplane thing is just..."},{"start":256.77,"end":260.31,"text":"I mean, it's worse than the way Laird handled the bombing of that goddamn French embassy."},{"start":260.37,"end":261.31,"text":"Unbelievable."},{"start":261.33,"end":270.83,"text":"One problem is that they are having Hyde called Rabin to tell him about your view with respect to Mrs. Mayer, that she shouldn't come in and say nothing can be done."},{"start":270.81,"end":273.43,"text":"And he said they have an election campaign."},{"start":273.51,"end":273.85,"text":"I know."},{"start":273.91,"end":274.62,"text":"Well, that's right."},{"start":274.64,"end":276.62,"text":"Not about that, but about the plane."},{"start":276.64,"end":277.22,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":277.24,"end":280.89,"text":"And in Israel, to be a hawk is more popular than the other."},{"start":281.45,"end":281.61,"text":"Right."},{"start":281.65,"end":282.21,"text":"I understand."},{"start":282.88,"end":285.44,"text":"Well, that's their deal this year, and then it's next year ours."},{"start":285.48,"end":288.53,"text":"But this is our year to really do something."},{"start":289.22,"end":291.26,"text":"We'll have a little fun with it."},{"start":291.28,"end":293.1,"text":"Right."},{"start":293.12,"end":293.62,"text":"Okay."},{"start":293.64,"end":295.11,"text":"Well, I hope you enjoy it."},{"start":295.13,"end":296.13,"text":"What are you going to see tonight?"},{"start":296.27,"end":298.79,"text":"A Noel Coward review."},{"start":298.81,"end":299.83,"text":"That would be good."},{"start":302.34,"end":303.46,"text":"I'm going to go and see that."},{"start":304.64,"end":309.01,"text":"And then I'm going to have dinner at the coat bus with our friend."},{"start":312.57,"end":314.31,"text":"Okay."},{"start":314.45,"end":314.95,"text":"Okay, great."},{"start":315.02,"end":316.04,"text":"Give her our best, will you?"},{"start":316.3,"end":317.24,"text":"Right, Mr. President."},{"start":317.32,"end":317.42,"text":"Okay."},{"start":324.13,"end":325.22,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss international developments, media coverage, and diplomatic strategy while Kissinger is in New York. The conversation covers ongoing military actions in Laos and Cambodia, with Nixon expressing indifference toward negative network news coverage regarding these strikes. They also evaluate the Middle East situation, criticizing the perceived rigidity of the Israeli government's negotiating stance while acknowledging the domestic political pressures influencing those policies.","topics":["Middle East peace negotiations","Laos air strikes","Cambodia air strikes","Media relations","Journalism","Israel-Egypt relations","POWs"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T09:18:35.378Z"},"topicSlugs":["middle-east-peace-negotiations","laos-air-strikes","cambodia-air-strikes","media-relations","journalism","israel-egypt-relations","prisoners-of-war"],"audioDurationSec":327,"audioFiles":[{"file":"162-008.mp3","bytes":2457600,"durationSec":327.01,"bitrate":60122,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:33.323Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:57.802Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/162-008.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/162-008","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/162/conversation-162-008","catalogNaId":417175845,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417175845","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}