Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 164 › Conversation 164-028

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Watergate scandal and Elliot Richardson

Sunday, April 29, 1973 · 10:19 AM–10:25 AM ET · Camp David Study Table · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation164-028 on Tape 164StartSunday, April 29, 1973 at 10:19 AMEndSunday, April 29, 1973 at 10:25 AMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 164-028 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger spoke via telephone to discuss the ongoing political damage caused by the Watergate scandal and strategies for managing the fallout. Nixon expressed his intent to replace Attorney General Richard Kleindienst with Elliot Richardson and to appoint a new, aggressive FBI director to restore order. The President also emphasized that any past FBI surveillance related to national security leaks—specifically concerning the Daniel Ellsberg case—must be staunchly defended as a necessary executive action.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Dr. Kissinger.
Hello.
Hello, Mr. President.
Hi, Henry.
How are you?
Okay.
I didn't really have anything.
I just wanted to call you to tell you I was thinking of... Oh, sure.
Well, that's fine, Henry.
Now, you get on with your business and I'll work.
Don't you worry.
Don't you worry.
Well, I have no question about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Got some awful tough calls to make.
Well, let's... We'll make them.
Well, you know how it is.
There's still some rough water ahead, and we're just going to have to... Well, Mr. President, no one can undo the achievement.
None of these packs of jackals.
Well, and in the end... None of the achievements that I've done.
And in the end, no, that's not in the end.
Remember, within a year, people are not going to be thinking of this.
They're going to be thinking of what we've been doing, Henry.
So don't you worry about that.
Within three months, Mr. President, no one will be able to...
Frankly, people are getting goddamn sick of it now, you know.
It's, I mean...
I think, in fact... You know, I've noticed people just...
I just have a feeling that even, you know, you pick up the paper and it's Watergate, Watergate.
Dean charges this and...
Somebody charges that.
Who broke into the psychiatrist's office?
Wasn't that the silliest goddamn thing?
Well, I think it's the post and the commentators are keeping it going.
Oh, sure.
But I think as soon as you've spoken or done something, whenever that will be.
No, I've got something to tell you in the greatest of confidence that I've decided on.
And I'm going to have to work it out today.
I've got to get a new attorney general, of course.
Right.
And actually, not because Quindy's disinvolved, but because Mitchell is, and he's so close to him, and he also isn't close to other things.
And the man who is totally qualified and is impeccably would be trusted by the so-called damned establishment is Elliot Richardson.
I've got to move him out of defense.
And I'm trying to get Dave Packard to come back as Secretary of Defense.
Now, that's just for your information.
Right.
But I'm working on it.
That's my decision.
That's what I'm going to do.
Right.
But Elliot, you see, has, I don't know whether you know his background, but his... Oh, yes.
He was Attorney General of... First in his class at Harvard Law, Attorney General, Lieutenant Governor.
one of the most, and I'm going to give him a free hand.
I'm going to tell him to clean every son of a bitch.
See, I'm going to clean, and I'm going to put in a new FBI director, too.
You know, I've got Ruck over there for a while, Ruckle's house, but that's only temporary.
I'm going to get the most mean son of a bitch I can find, put him in the FBI, and then let all hell break loose.
Now, there's one area, of course, where you and I have to be concerned about and where we've got to stand firm as hell.
As you know, Henry, we did do some surveillance with the FBI on these leaks.
Do you remember?
Oh, yes.
And they were approved by the Attorney General and so forth.
When they come out, we've just got to say, of course, but you remember the whole business.
I was in 69.
Well, it was whenever the damn Ellsberg case was.
When Ellsberg came, you remember?
And then right after that, the place was leaking like a sieve.
So we did checking and so forth and so on and so on and so on.
69 and early 70, I think.
I don't know whether it was in 70 or not, but when was Ellsberg, 69?
No, Ellsberg was 71.
I don't remember any FBI work on the Ellsberg case.
Well, then it's 69 and 71-2 then.
Maybe we did it wrong.
The 69 ones I knew about.
Yeah.
The 71 I didn't, but it doesn't make any difference.
But they were done, and I've got to defend those as national security.
And we've got to do it in the future, you know.
By golly, when we've got leaks, I'm going to order a buggy.
Don't you agree?
Well, if it's a question of national security approved by the Attorney General, I don't see what anyone can say about it.
Correct.
And the problem we've got with some of this and the Ellsberg stuff, you see, Edgar Hoover wouldn't do the job because his Marx, his closest friend's daughter, married Ariel Ellsberg, wouldn't do it.
And that's why some of that crap was done in the White House.
But that's too bad.
That's just one of those things.
But I just want you to know, when that comes out, don't...
Don't back off, you know what I mean?
Anything that's national security, we're going to fight like hell for.
Right.
Absolutely.
No, I will certainly not back off.
Yeah, you won't have to.
Okay, Henry, thanks for your call.
Right, Mr. President.

NARA Description

On April 29, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:19 am and 10:25 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 164-028 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 164-28

Date: April 29, 1973
Time: Unknown between 10:19 am and 10:25 am
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Kissinger’s call
           -Support for President

     President’s schedule
           -Telephone calls
                 -Difficult nature of calls

     President’s achievements
           -Longevity

     Watergate
          -Duration of crisis
          -Public reaction
          -News stories
                -Washington Post
                                               -23-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                            Conversation No. 164-28 (cont’d)

           -Attorney General
                 -Richard G. Kleindienst and John N. Mitchell
                 -Elliot L. Richardson
                       -David Packard as replacement
                       -Background
           -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
                 -William D. Ruckelshaus
                 -Directorship
                 -Surveillance concerning leaks
                       -Ellsberg case
                       -Dates
                              -1969
                              -1971
                       -National security
                       -Daniel Ellsberg
                              -J. Edgar Hoover and Louis Marx

Also recorded on April 29, 1973

  • 164-027 10:05 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:05 am and 10:19 am.
  • 164-029 10:25 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:25 am and 10:26 am.
  • 164-030 10:26 AM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, William P. Rogers, and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:26 am and 10:36 am.
  • 164-031 10:36 AM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:36 am and 11:46 am.
  • 164-032 11:46 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, William P. Rogers, and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:46 am and 11:52 am.
  • 164-033 11:52 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:52 am and 12:01 pm.
  • 164-034 12:01 PM · 21 sec — Camp David operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at Camp David at 12:01 pm.
  • 164-035 12:01 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:01 pm and 12:28 pm.

All 17 conversations from April 29, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 164-028, April 29, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/164-028 (accessed October 12, 2026).