{"conversationCode":"164-038","tapeNumber":164,"conversationNumber":38,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-164-038","startDateTime":"1973-04-29T16:32:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-04-29T16:34:00.000Z","startDate":"29-Apr-1973","startTime":"12:32 PM","endDate":"29-Apr-1973","endTime":"12:34 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On April 29, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:32 pm to 12:34 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 164-038 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDST","recordingDevice":"Camp David Study Table","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 164-38\n\nDate: April 29, 1973\nTime: 12:32 pm - 12:34 pm\nLocation: Camp David Study Table\n\nThe President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n     Watergate\n          -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman\n                -Resignation letter\n                      -Handling\n                      -Wording\n                      -Tenor\n                      -Wording\n                      -Ervin Committee hearings","filename":["164-038.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"164-037","nextCode":"164-039","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":2.46,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":2.48,"end":9.67,"text":"The way that the resignation thing should be handled, see in the letter, he said, we have considered your suggestion, Mr. President, today."},{"start":9.69,"end":26.49,"text":"I mean, I've considered the leave of absence until this matter is cleared up, but this would not be fair to the, I mean, there needs to be a, because we cannot, you know, we don't know how long it's going to take, that we cannot have a period of time in which there is any, you know,"},{"start":27.47,"end":27.75,"text":"You know?"},{"start":28.23,"end":28.49,"text":"Yeah, right."},{"start":28.91,"end":29.57,"text":"You get what I mean?"},{"start":29.59,"end":29.88,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":30.12,"end":33.93,"text":"So it shows that they... How does that sound to you?"},{"start":34.41,"end":35.13,"text":"Right, I think so."},{"start":35.35,"end":36.25,"text":"Does it sound all right, though?"},{"start":36.27,"end":38.86,"text":"Is it something that, you know, makes it look a little better from their standpoint?"},{"start":38.94,"end":39.12,"text":"Right."},{"start":39.52,"end":44.53,"text":"In other words, you can't have a period of time of uncertainty before... Yeah, because of the period of time of uncertainty that I..."},{"start":44.92,"end":48.24,"text":"And we've discussed the possible... With the upcoming Irving Committee."},{"start":48.27,"end":51.35,"text":"Irving Committee hearings, which will take several months and so forth."},{"start":51.37,"end":53.58,"text":"We're confident we will be cleared and so forth."},{"start":53.6,"end":55.86,"text":"We believe that the only course is resignation."},{"start":56,"end":56.18,"text":"Right."},{"start":56.76,"end":57.12,"text":"Okay."},{"start":57.18,"end":59.47,"text":"Confident, cleared, and at the future... Fine."},{"start":59.65,"end":59.89,"text":"Right."},{"start":59.91,"end":60.13,"text":"Fine."},{"start":60.85,"end":61.93,"text":"All right, you call him, let me know."},{"start":61.95,"end":64.6,"text":"Yes, sir."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler strategize on the public framing of the resignations of H. R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman. They aim to draft resignation letters that pivot away from a mere leave of absence to account for the prolonged uncertainty surrounding the upcoming Ervin Committee hearings. By emphasizing the aides' confidence in their eventual exoneration, Nixon seeks to manage the political optics of the departures.","topics":["Watergate","H. R. Haldeman","John Ehrlichman","Resignation","Ervin Committee","Public Relations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T09:22:16.771Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate","h-r-haldeman","john-ehrlichman","resignation","ervin-committee","public-relations"],"audioDurationSec":69,"audioFiles":[{"file":"164-038.mp3","bytes":2224128,"durationSec":69.36,"bitrate":256531,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:04.104Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/164-038.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/164-038","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/164/conversation-164-038","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}