On April 30, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:22 am and 10:36 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 164-044 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Yeah.
Good morning, sir.
Hi, Ron.
I wanted to just get a, just between drafts, what up-to-date report, how's everything going?
Well, we're moving along.
I've just approved the, gone over and the statement by you, and it's as we discussed it yesterday.
One point that
Richardson cannot be named acting Attorney General.
Yeah.
So therefore, the way we're phrasing it is that... Just name him.
Well, we're saying that you will submit his name immediately, and then that you have asked him to involve himself immediately in the investigative process surrounding the Watergate matter until he is confirmed.
Right.
And then we can pick up and fill in that later in a couple days by Richardson or something.
Right.
Everything seems to be shaping out quite well.
I've got all of the letters.
I've got Kleindienst's letter, and I've talked to Kleindienst several times this morning in Richardson, and we all seem to be coordinated on that.
Haldeman and Erlingman are all apprised, and we're proceeding with the notifications, and we should be ready to go at 11 o'clock or 11.15.
The Dean thing, Jerry Jones, the Dean is in town, and Jerry Jones will call the Dean.
to tell him that...
You know, you are announcing today that Haldeman, Ehrlichman, and Kleindienst are resigning and that the president has asked him, Jones.
And he wants to announce at the same time that Dean is resigning.
Jones will say that the president is asking for and accepting your resignation today and wanted to announce it at the same time.
You don't need to say ask and accept.
He says that Haldeman, Jones, and Dean are resigning.
If he asks anything about it, there's no jury.
That's all I've got to say is that he's...
that he is accepting, that he, just say that the president today is accepting, is announcing the, put it this way, the president today is announcing the acceptance of the resignations.
of the three that I just mentioned, and that I want to announce also in view of developments of the acceptance of his resignation, that I'm going to announce also the acceptance of his resignation.
I am going to announce the acceptance of his resignation.
As you know, John, of course, that's the president's priority.
He says, well, I have a letter on this and that.
Can I talk to the president?
No.
Gentlemen, it's all done.
Right.
But then in the announcement, I'm going to say that
Today, he requested and accepted.
That's right.
Yeah, I got it.
That's right.
But I just want to handle it that way with him.
Now, sir, on the... Len Garment is serving as counsel.
We're mentioning that he is going to serve acting in this capacity.
Do you want to lock yourself in by saying throughout the remainder of the Watergate investigation... No, sir.
I didn't think so.
No, sir.
No.
No, because I may...
I think I might have got somebody pretty fast that he will...
He will act as counsel until his successor is named.
Take on additional duties as counsel to the President.
Until his successor is named.
Until a permanent successor is named.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Good.
Let's see if I have anything else here.
Have you seen the draft?
Yeah.
Who looked at you and Rogers and Rhodes?
What do you think?
I think it's...
I've done a lot of work.
At least it gives you a good base.
It's the right tone, I think.
That's what you want to say, yeah.
And...
Well, I put a little more personal things in it.
Well, that's something you personalized it, but I think Price has done a fine job pulling it together and everything.
The main thing is the point that the Secretary made last night, that the tone of the words is the thing that will carry it.
Your presence, I think, should be the same presence as it has always been before and, you know, to the nation.
I see.
You mean calm and assured?
That's correct.
The people sitting out there in Chicago and New York and Los Angeles and Atlanta, Georgia, are tuning in to see the president make an address.
And the words, if the words are right, the tone will come through from the words.
But your presentation of it, I think, should be calm, you know, confident, moving to make these decisions in the interest of the country.
And then people will relate to that.
In other words, I would not in any way project any personal... Well, the personal... Agony.
Oh, no, no, no, no.
I understand that, Ron.
I said I had something I wrote down last night.
I'm trying to find it here.
What the hell was it?
I don't know.
Well, I guess there'll be no text tonight.
No, absolutely not.
I'm not going to have a picture after you.
No, sir.
I agree with both.
I don't want those people in there.
No text, no picture.
I agree.
As soon as I finish, I'm going to walk out.
Right.
And you're going to ask 9 o'clock.
No, I haven't requested.
I'm going to request it about 10 minutes before I announce.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
But I think we're all in order on everything, sir.
I know you will be up for it.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Well...
We'll get this.
Haldeman and Ehrlichman are in great shape today, Mr. President.
Marvelous men.
Yes, sir.
We'll be up for it.
And Dean will really slash.
Well, that, Mr. President.
He's really going to crack it.
Mr. President, please.
That is something that you should not think about again.
I don't give a shit.
That's right.
Let him go.
Let him go.
That's right.
That's right.
He can come out and slash and say anything he pleases.
I mean, he can say, I warned the president on the 21st of March.
Sure he did.
But that's when we started the investigation.
That's right.
And also, when he warned you at that time, you were not aware that he had been involved in any discussions about the Watergate prior to the time or aware of the cover-up.
Oh, no, no, no, no.
He spoke about the cover-up run.
Well, he made reference to the cover-up, but you weren't aware of his involvement.
I mean, specifically at that time.
Well...
I think that he was indicating that he said, look, I may have to go to jail, too, and didn't go into it in a lot of specifics.
But he reported to me, for example, that Bittman and Ed, you know, had talked to O'Brien about that, you know, and that showed that he knew damn well what was going on.
He said, what are we going to do?
And we talked about it.
What the hell are we going to do?
We didn't do anything, but you know what I mean.
Well, that doesn't matter.
I said, Ron, I said, well, maybe we could do it.
It won't work, will it?
You know, that's how it all came out.
It's just a million dollars.
You remember I've gone through this.
That's what started it.
That was part of the investigation.
But I was trying to get the son of a bitch out.
I didn't know.
What he didn't really tell me, though, the main thing he didn't tell me was the subordination of perjury.
And the fact that he had attended Watergate meetings.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
He mentioned that, Ron.
Oh, he did?
Oh, yes.
No, no.
In his credit, no.
He didn't, I don't know whether he had mentioned, he didn't mention them all.
He didn't fully disclose them, but he mentioned the two.
He mentioned two.
It's not pretty good from his standpoint, but I don't think he mentioned, I think he attended one or two that I didn't know about, you see.
And, but, you know, I've got to give him credit.
I'm not going to, I know I don't, just because the guy rats, you don't say that he was a rat all the time.
You know, he was trying in his own way at that time still to play on the team.
He really was.
He went up to Camp Dave and tried to write it down, and what he found out was that, by God, that he couldn't do it.
I have a feeling, and I had a very interesting feeling last night, that I think the U.S. attorneys have given him immunity.
I don't think he would have...
I hit Peterson hard on this yesterday, and I said, no, look here, Peter Henry.
Friday, I said, you have...
usually you have not given him immunity by estoppel and uh he said no he says because peterson came in said friday says you can do anything you want with dean well that's right and so that's that and uh uh uh yeah
Okay, well, that's something you shouldn't be dwelling on today or thinking about.
That's something that won't happen.
Well, to give him immunity, he's going to be a hell of a poor witness before Wilson.
Wilson will tear the shit out of him.
Right.
He says, what were you promised for this, you know?
Got home, I'm an urban man.
Oh, that was a painful thing for those poor guys to go through.
Those guys to go through.
They're the decentest, most decent men.
Right, they're good men.
Son of a bitch.
Son of a bitch.
All this crap.
Mm-hmm.
But one thing about it, let me say this.
Do you realize that it's not all I had?
There's going to be a lot more come out in the Urban Committee.
They'll repeat it most of the time.
They'll write it all the time and so forth.
But do you realize that just this awful hardship that we've had here would have been coming out over every goddamn year?
week for for months during the summer months right right third of february don't you agree yes sir christ we've had this stuff about re-rifling the files another crisis another crisis i i have a feeling that dean did a favor in that respect get the son of a bitch going
You know, as a matter of fact, virtually everything.
Now, I think Colson's in it this morning.
What's that all about?
What aides are saying that?
Colson's aides?
No, that was apparently testimony that Magruder and someone else gave.
Testimony for the grand jury?
No, I guess that's where the leak came from.
There's going to be all sorts of stories like that.
But they'll pay a lesson.
Incidentally, isn't it fair to inform Colson?
No, sir, we don't have to.
He's no longer a member of the staff, and there's no need to do that, Mr. President.
No, I didn't make a difference.
He's right.
No choice, anyway.
No choice, anyway.
I don't mind, though, if you did.
I wouldn't mind.
I don't think it's not bad to say, Chuck, he's announcing this and this and this.
Just a one-minute call is all right.
I really think I'd do that one minute before.
So he has it one minute before, and then...
I just wanted you to know.
I wouldn't treat him, you know.
Okay.
I think it's just important.
Okay.
To do that.
Good.
Don't worry about these details now.
They're all going to be taken care of.
We're in good shape, and you... Incidentally, Ron, what is the situation on my schedule this week?
I mean, is it too much to...
I'll call Bull.
I forget.
I'll call Bull and work it out with him.
You're...
Because what I plan to do, actually, I've really got to do this to sort of keep my body together.
Yes, sir.
I've got to get away for a few days.
I don't know.
I guess people say I'm running away from the problem.
No, no, no, absolutely.
There are going to be more crap flying around that week, and I don't give a shit anymore.
I really don't care.
But do you think it's all right to go away for three or four days?
Absolutely.
I think you should.
You have to be honest.
The schedule's clear.
Where is it?
What does it show?
The Bront thing.
Let me get a copy of it.
No, no, no.
Let me call Steve.
Isn't that better?
Or you've got the copy.
You've got a copy.
I cancel, I think.
I'll call Steve.
Okay, goodbye.
Good luck.