Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 165 › Conversation 165-008

Nixon phone call with Haig on Watergate and Wiretaps

Friday, May 11, 1973 · 7:08 PM–7:27 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 10 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haig, Alexander M., Jr.Conversation165-008 on Tape 165StartFriday, May 11, 1973 at 7:08 PMEndFriday, May 11, 1973 at 7:27 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 165-008 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Alexander Haig discussed the status of White House investigations into past wiretaps and surveillance operations to ensure they could mount a strong defense against potential public backlash. The two reviewed documentation regarding the scope of these activities, confirming they were authorized for national security purposes and were limited in number compared to previous administrations. They coordinated a strategy for William Ruckelshaus to deliver a public statement on the findings by the following week, while also preparing Henry Kissinger to deflect questions regarding these matters during his upcoming briefings.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello, Mr. President?
Hi, Al.
Yes, sir.
We've just gone through this thing, and it's really very clean.
We've got six newsmen, ten staff.
We cut off date.
The last one was done on February 9, 1971.
But what about Lake?
Lake is the same.
He's unpacking.
But was it done by the FBI?
Yes.
And everyone... No, but wait a minute.
Lake was in 71 Lake, wasn't it?
Yeah, we have February 9th, 71 cut off on every one of these cases.
Including Lake?
Yes, sir.
Yeah, but Lake retired Al in late 71, didn't he?
Oh, no, no, no.
After Cambodia.
That's right.
That's spring of 71.
Well, the spring, but what about lake stuff?
Was it done by the FBI or by... All by the FBI.
Now, what this could mean is that there could have been some other tasks, but they would have been done outside of this framework, and they're not with this material.
All right, that's the main thing.
We don't have anything in the White House on it.
We have nothing here in the White House on it, and...
For that reason, we can take a very strong stand.
Good.
Now, we've been with Ruckelhaus.
Correct.
What I found out is what's really happened here.
What is it?
This stuff was sent to the White House by Bill Sullivan.
Right.
Because J. Edgar Hoover told him, or inferred that he was going to use it to blackmail the White House.
Hoover said that?
That's right.
Blackmail the what?
What the hell?
What?
Well, there's an awful lot of juicy stuff in here.
You mean about what?
Well, different people.
Oh, in the White House, yeah.
In the White House.
And Sullivan just felt that he never had reached the point of his dotage in which he couldn't afford this.
Now, this is all wrapped up in this terrible gut fight that's been going on within the FBI and between the FBI and justice.
Right.
Where there's even been threats on people's lives and everything else.
That's right.
That's right.
Now, Ruckelhaus says that
He's got to finish his investigation, which the last interview will be tonight.
And that's me.
Good.
So I'm ready to give him some juicy wounds on the foot.
Now, he doesn't think he can go until Monday with his announcement.
In terms of all of us.
All right.
Problem.
So what Henry can do tomorrow is just bridge off.
He said, I understand the director of the FBI has completed an investigation.
And we'll have something to say on this the first of next week.
But I want to emphasize that every report we had was received by a duly authorized director of the Department of Concerns, CIA, or the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Right.
And they were, now, in this respect, they'll be sure that you get in the facts that I pointed out earlier, Al.
I mean, how many were done in the Kennedy administration?
How many were done in... That's what we're putting in Ruckelhaus' overall statement.
That's right.
Yes, sir.
Absolutely.
So we'll have a good zapping statement from him.
Everything is... Oh, and I want him to feel very comfortable with it.
You know, he's got to believe it.
Well, he's coming over here tomorrow.
These things are so clean, he ought to look at them.
I want to look at them, and I want Lazard to look at it.
Well, he's been... Lazard has?
Yes, in fact, he...
Almost every packet has a...
A memo on it signed by Mitchell.
Approved by Mitchell.
What about the Lake one?
Well, you know, I don't mean each man's name, but there are several memos here.
Lake is the one that I'm concerned about because of the fact that... Well, I know that after he was in the other camp.
But if that was done by Hunt, God knows where it is, and it was not done within the...
It's not in the White House files.
No.
Okay.
I have Ruck looking at everyone.
Does Ruck want to make a statement then?
He wants to do it Monday.
He said he'd need all weekend to sort through these things because the eyeballs are always internal sabotage and brawling.
What's his ruling about Felt?
Well, I think Felt will be a victim of this thing.
I wouldn't, you know, my point is, why push him at a time when he can then go out and babble around, you know what I mean?
Well, maybe to the point where he can't even risk not doing it.
He's not willing to discuss his internal investigation.
I know.
But, uh...
But, uh, see, Sullivan is against the vote, you know.
Very much.
Very much.
Sullivan's our man.
That's right.
If this thing comes out clean...
And there's a house cleaning over there.
Well, I don't know.
We'll just see.
But we've got to be in a position where we put it all out.
That's right.
There were a number of... We conducted these investigations.
They were less than have been done previously.
They were for national security purposes, period.
Well, you look at this operation.
It was so modest.
Sixteen people.
Men, staff, and six businessmen.
Yeah, that's correct.
That's nothing.
Yeah, but that includes Lake.
That includes Lake.
And the purpose was to check leaks.
Exactly right.
Well, good.
But just be sure Reckonsaws knows we're not holding anything back.
He can look at anything he wants to look at.
That's right.
And we want the whole thing out.
Let him, because he's Mr. Clean, you see, let him hang it out.
That's exactly right.
He's not just for, you know, I don't know, Ruck will play the game.
Oh, hell, he's a good man.
I'm just not sure if he wants to do that job.
Or, you know, he's the best guy for that job.
Maybe he is.
Maybe we ought to leave him there if he gets worked into it.
All right.
Clean it out, then.
Good.
I'm glad you've gone through it.
You'll feel a little more comfortable then.
I feel like we're all set, sir.
And Henry's well geared.
We'll go over it again.
Henry, let's go and have a briefing then.
Yes, I think we ought to have it.
I'll tell you what the hell.
Face up to it.
We don't have to be prepared.
And you should just go out and say, look, I'm not going to discuss these.
Whatever was done, there were a modest number done.
I mean, there's a modest number in any administration for purposes of leaks.
That's right.
And everyone signed by the agency had concerns.
But they were all legitimate.
That turns out a lot of those, yeah, hell, he knew.
You know, at first, he sort of planned the game.
He didn't know about any of these things.
Yeah, we don't understand that.
I just don't understand.
I understand that he's trying to say he didn't do a damn thing, but God damn it.
It wasn't done without his approval, you know, Al.
Well, his signature's on these papers, so he's going to have a red face.
It's a signature of the Lake Papers, by any chance?
No, it's a separate piece of paper, but it has a listing of the various documents.
And I think the Lake Papers are included in that listing.
You know, it's a summary.
Yeah, but you see, you never know what Hunt's going to say, what the hell he was doing.
Well, Ehrlichman assures me that
Well, as assured me, he doesn't believe that Hunt did any bugging.
Well, I don't think he did either.
You don't?
No, because it's a very risky, difficult thing to do.
Yeah, you have to have a lot of complicated material.
The agency doesn't, the Bureau doesn't, in co-coordination with the phone company.
That's right.
Okay, boy.
Well, I think we're coming along.
Henry is in LA as
God damn, I don't know what to say to him this morning, but he's just humming.
Well, I want him to go out there tomorrow tough and strong and say, of course we did this.
You know, if he's asked, but then say, I'm not going to discuss it.
But I want to talk about the Soviets.
You know, there'll be a report, and a report's going to be made, a full report, and that everything we've done is done for the purpose of national security.
That's right.
And what have you thought?
Have you done any more thinking about what you ought to put out there?
I kind of think it won't pay off.
That's my feeling.
It's a little too...
It's really vicious and it's sort of vicious and rough.
It's not the bitches that deserve it, but it isn't really the issue we need.
Tell me what we need.
Let's leak out about a week or two from now.
That's what I think.
That's right.
Okay, I'll go ahead, sir.
Fine.
All right.
And you got Cigarette on board?
Yes.
Yes, I've been over it with Ron, with Ron Henry, and I'm going to bring him a breast now, a vocal health problem, but he can't do it till Monday.
Fine.
He's in good shape.
Fine.
Okay, I'll thank you.
Bye, Mr. President.
Bye.

NARA Description

On May 11, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 7:08 pm to 7:27 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 165-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 165-8

Date: May 11, 1973
Time: 7:08pm - 7:27 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

     Watergate
          -Wiretaps
               -Number and targets
               -Cut-off date
               -William A. K. (“Tony”) Lake
                     -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
                     -Timing
               -White House files
                     -William D. Ruckelshaus’s conversation with Haig
                           -J. Edgar Hoover’s statement to William C. Sullivan
                           -Contents
                           -FBI feud with Justice Department
               -Ruckelshaus’s forthcoming statement
                                 -9-

       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                 Conversation No. 165-42 (cont’d)

            -Timing
      -Henry A. Kissinger’s possible statement
            -Ruckelshaus’s investigation
      -Ruckelshaus’s forthcoming statement
            -Compared with previous administrations
                   -John F. Kennedy administrations
      -White House files
            -J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.’s examination
            -John N. Mitchell’s memo
            -Lake
                   -E. Howard Hunt, Jr.
      -Ruckelshaus
            -Forthcoming statement
            -W. Mark Felt
                   -Sullivan’s opposition
      -Number and targets
            -Purpose
            -Lake
      -Ruckelshaus
            -FBI
      -Haig’s view
      -Kissinger’s forthcoming briefing
            -Compared with previous administrations
      -Mitchell
            -Role
            -Testimony
            -Lake
      -Hunt’s possible statements
            -John D. Ehrlichman’s comment to the President
      -Difficulty
      -Kissinger’s forthcoming briefing
            -Soviet summit
            -National security
-Forthcoming leak
-Haig’s conversation with Ronald L. Ziegler
      -Statements
      -Ruckelshaus, Kissinger
                                             -10-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                            Conversation No. 165-42 (cont’d)

Also recorded on May 11, 1973

  • 434-037 3:45 PM · 17 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:45 pm to 4:04 pm.
  • 165-001 5:31 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:31 pm and 5:35 pm.
  • 165-002 5:35 PM · 12 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 5:35 pm to 5:47 pm.
  • 165-003 6:30 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 6:30 pm and 6:35 pm.
  • 165-004 6:35 PM · 19 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 6:35 pm to 6:47 pm.
  • 165-005 6:47 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 6:47 pm and 7:08 pm.
  • 165-006 6:47 PM · 16 sec — Camp David operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 6:47 pm and 7:08 pm.
  • 165-007 6:47 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 6:47 pm and 7:08 pm.

All 78 conversations from May 11, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 165-008, May 11, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/165-008 (accessed October 12, 2026).