Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 165 › Conversation 165-012
Nixon phone call with Ash on Economic policy and Price controls
Saturday, May 12, 1973 · 11:50 AM–11:56 AM ET · Camp David Study Table · 7 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Roy Ash discussed the administration's economic policy, specifically affirming their rejection of a price freeze despite pressure from some advisors. They also coordinated cabinet management strategies, with Nixon tasking Ash to reassure Caspar Weinberger regarding his continued importance as a key domestic counselor. Finally, the President reflected on the recent, painful resignations of H.R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman, reiterating that these departures were necessary steps for the administration to move past the Watergate scandal.
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Hello?
Good morning, Mr. President.
I just hope I didn't give you too much trouble by what we did at the campus the other day.
I thought that was the best way to get them all working with the OMB rather than thinking we were trying to, you know, cut them off.
I think it came out exactly right.
I might talk a little later with Al Haig.
and found that we had both been pursuing exactly the same course, even though we hadn't been discussing it together.
I think it was exactly correct.
The good thing for you to do, Roy, would be to call each cabin officer and say, now look, what's your situation on personnel, and if you've got any real danger that you need to, you know, you sort of take this leadership there.
Would you do that?
And I've already done it, yes, sir.
Good.
And work very closely with Ken on this, too.
Right.
He's going to be a part of it.
He's great.
One other thing.
Give me your feeling on the economic situation.
Still think we should stay steady in the buggy?
It would be my view that we should not at this time add further to any control type steps that we've had, except
The need to give very, very careful attention to the energy, matter, and the prospective fuel oil supplies and problems.
Oh, yeah, yeah, all that, for sure.
But I meant in terms of weight, price control, and so forth.
There still isn't a, you know, I was, and perhaps if you wouldn't mind, you might give John Connolly a call, because he's always been a big play, but.
Colin, did I ask you to call him on this?
I got your will.
And say, I know that he thinks we ought to freeze just because it'd be good for the psychology of the country.
Well, the trouble is, Roy, we went through all that, and don't you still make a freeze at this point or don't let me lead you to it?
No, I agree.
And how about George and Herb?
Are they standing as firm on that, too?
I believe, I know they are standing exactly the same, particularly when one thinks of that, not just the...
the single dimension of getting in, but the dual dimension of how to get out.
Right.
And when you think of the whole thing... And the damp economy is still rolling along pretty good.
It's doing pretty well.
I would believe that even though there are critics from both sides, that we're probably steering the best possible course considering the underlying facts and considering further the fact that the government doesn't make the economy at only...
has some minimal effect on influencing it.
Yeah.
We can't make it like we want it to.
Of course, the argument that is made by, you know, the Northsburg-type like Sinlinger is that, well, psychologically, it's what we need.
We need a real boost in it that we can give it to everybody, a hell of a boost by freezing for 90 days.
I'm curious of that.
Well, first, I agree that the issue really is largely psychological, but that a freeze isn't.
as an overkill psychologically, the more that we can within our present system march out these clubs and show them around a while and do a little with them.
I think that's our best psychological tool rather than a phrase as a big overkill.
Right.
Psychologically, it would be my view.
Right.
Okay, right.
Okay.
Well, you just keep your spirit up.
Don't let all this crap about Watergate worry you.
It's going to come out, you know what I mean?
Quite the contrary.
Matter of fact, we're getting to the bottom of the son of a bitch, and it's a terrible, heart-rending thing for me to have folks like the poor Maury Stans, who's as honest as a day is long, and John...
But on the other hand, I think we had to do what we did with John and Bob.
We had.
There was no choice.
It's too bad that they...
Their families, particularly.
Right.
They all need to suffer, but they'll come through it stronger.
You know, the funny thing about all these things is it really pulls a family together.
I said to both of them in the last moment that I saw them is that we're proud that I, speaking for the others, that your children and others, we're proud of you to step up and take the position you did, that is to leave, in order that the country can go on and the president can go on.
Right.
And I think it brought a little tear to Bob's eyes.
Because it was a tough decision, isn't it?
Well, it was terribly tough.
I must say, I did it last Sunday.
It's hard to realize it was only a week ago, and it's about the hardest moment of my life.
You know, I've done a lot of things that affect myself that have been hard, but that doesn't make as much difference, you know.
But when it affects your people that you really have great affection for, boy, it really tears you up.
And I keep thinking about their families as well.
Oh, their wonderful wives and children and so forth.
But they all have their day.
They will, and they'll all come back, and things will be well.
But in the meantime, we're digging in and doing everything that we can do for you.
I think the cabinet thing had a good effect psychologically on them.
It had an excellent effect.
They were through those down spots, and they're working on cleaning up.
Kemp, particularly, Kemp Weinberger, he felt pretty bad about it.
About the counselor role?
Right.
I know.
Well, the thing about Kemp is he's going to be a counselor, in fact.
But you know what I mean?
And obviously he's going to be in charge of this.
But you see, the counselor thing, Roy, simply wasn't working.
And it was causing too much trouble with others.
But I want Cap to know that I consider, look, let's face it, there are about four or five members on the domestic side that I have to talk to.
One is Cap.
One is Schultz.
And, of course, the Attorney General.
The other one at times may be lent, and otherwise it's all tangential.
I mean, sometimes you talk to the Secretary of Agriculture, the Secretary of Interior, the Secretary of so forth, but you ought to give Cap a call and tell him that you and I chatted about it and that I wanted him to know that I had to do this for that, but that he ought to know that I expect him to be mine.
In fact, my counselor for those affairs.
I will make sure to do that.
He's a superb fellow.
And also the kind of guy we can rely on.
He's the perfect man for the job right there.
I've considered that department, the soft jet, the soft programs, the soft people, and he's going to make sure that they aren't too soft and that they all harden up a bit.
Right.
So they were let down by him.
But other than that, a lot of people there were buoyed up very substantially to it.
Good.
Alright, Roy.
Have a good weekend.
Thank you, Mr. President.
NARA Description
On May 12, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Roy L. Ash talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:50 am to 11:56 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 165-012 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 165-12
Date: May 12, 1973
Time: 11:50 am - 11:56 am
Location: Camp David Study Table
The President talked with Roy L. Ash.
Previous Cabinet meeting
-16-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 165-42 (cont’d)
-Office of Management and Budget [OMB]
-Ash’s conversation with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
Ash’s activities
-Cabinet
-Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.
National economy
-Controls
-Fuel Oil Supplies
-Energy
-Ash’s forthcoming call to John B. Connally
-Freeze
-President’s resisntance
-George P. Shultz and Herbert G. Stein
-Government’s role
-Controls
-Albert Sindlinger’s view
-Psychological boost from freeze
-Ash’s view
Watergate
-Maurice H. Stans
-John N. Mitchell
-Martha (“Beall”) Mitchell
-Robert L. Vesco
-H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman
-Departures from office
-Effect on families
-Conversation with Ash
-Shultz
-President’s decision
Previous Cabinet meeting
-Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
-Role on White House staff
President’s domestic counselors
-17-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 165-42 (cont’d)
-Weinberger, Shultz and Leonard Garment
-Ash’s forthcoming call to Weinberger
-Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW] [?]Also recorded on May 12, 1973
- 165-011 10:49 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:49 am and 11:50 am.
- 165-013 11:56 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:56 am and 11:58 am.
- 165-014 11:58 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Roy L. Ash talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:58 am to 12:00 pm.
- 165-015 12:22 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:22 pm to 12:30 pm.
- 165-016 12:30 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:30 pm and 12:31 pm.
- 165-017 12:31 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:31 pm to 12:36 pm.
- 165-018 12:36 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:36 pm and 12:37 pm.
- 165-019 12:37 PM · 17 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:37 pm to 12:54 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 165-012, May 12, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/165-012 (accessed October 12, 2026).