Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 165 › Conversation 165-015
Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Watergate and Wiretaps
Saturday, May 12, 1973 · 12:22 PM–12:30 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 8 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss the fallout from Kissinger's recent press briefing regarding national security wiretaps and his access to intelligence reports during the Watergate scandal. Kissinger reviews the success of his briefing, which aimed to refocus public attention on the upcoming Soviet summit and Strategic Arms Limitation Talks (SALT), while Nixon emphasizes that the administration’s wiretap policies were authorized and less extensive than those of the Kennedy administration. The two conclude by agreeing that the administration should resist releasing a list of wiretapped individuals to protect innocent parties and maintain focus on key foreign policy objectives.
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Transcript (AI-generated)
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Hello.
I have Dr. Kissinger calling you.
Hi.
Ready.
Hello, Mr. President.
Hi, Henry.
Well, I did what we had discussed.
I was on the Watergate thing.
I did get the question on whether I had seen the health care tab.
And I said that all intelligence reports concerning national security go across my desk.
that when the FBI investigates individuals who are suspected of unauthorized disclosure of information, or when there is an allegation of an unauthorized disposition of a document, and if it concerns the national security area, I would get a copy of, I would get the report.
Right.
I said I will not talk about individuals.
I will say that the individual mentioned
was not separated from my staff for security reasons, but for other reasons.
I thought I'd throw that in too.
Right.
And then afterwards they said, well, you left the implication that you saw the report.
I said the FBI director will make a full statement on Monday.
So I suspect that the big story tomorrow won't be my briefing, but my having seen these tabs,
Well, who knows?
How did your briefing go?
The briefing went very well.
I spoke about your general philosophy towards the Soviet Union, how you prepare for the summit, what you hope to achieve, how prescient it is.
I was looking forward to seeing you.
Pretty much along the lines of an unclassified version of what I gave you yesterday.
Right.
That's all right.
It'll get a bigger break, you think?
It'll get a price.
About nine-tenths of it.
You'll get the play.
Don't worry about the other thing.
The other thing had to be in.
That's all right.
That's Washington.
But the country's got to be more interested in what you said about... That's right.
Well, as far as the other thing is concerned, we're not talking about anything illegal or questionable.
We're talking about authorized investigations.
Oh, shoot, Mike.
Authorized investigations, which we did less than any previous administration.
That's right.
As you know.
That's right.
We had about 80 in a year, and they had...
Bobby Kennedy had the most, you know, over 110.
Yeah, yeah.
I just know that.
Oh, yes.
Well, that'll be in the statement that he makes Monday or Tuesday.
Right.
So you could have the assurance.
I mean, as you know, my God, when they had a hell of a lot less probable than we did, Jesus, our stuff was massive.
That's right.
Exactly.
No, no, I'm not concerned.
In fact, I'm glad it's not.
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Yeah, true.
Well, I hope your dauber's not down.
Oh, not at all.
Not in this ride.
Yeah, it's a stuff.
Okay.
Not in this ride.
Well, like, you're having to do this stuff, and you do your, you know, for the magazines and the rest, like, a little feel of the fact that, you know, that this is more important than the first summit in terms of what it can achieve and all that.
That's what I did.
I started out with the principles of the first summit.
And now we have to go on to that, to more significant things.
Right.
Even more significant things.
Right.
Did you go on assault?
Uh, yes.
Yeah.
I went into assault.
It was a heart-throbbing thing.
I think the Soviets would like it.
I think on the substance of it, it went very well.
Right.
Well, you had to anticipate this question, as I told you, and I'm glad you had your answer.
It was a damn good answer.
And we had to get it out sooner or later anyway.
Sure, sure.
Because that's the way it's going to be.
Okay.
And I get told that line all the time to the FBI director.
That's up to him.
Oh, absolutely.
That's, uh, these are classified matters.
Absolutely.
Because, uh, even a fellow like Link, you know, the hell, you don't want to, you don't want to...
left the FBI director.
What they're now going to insist is to get a list of all of them.
But I don't see why we have to release that.
I don't think we should.
I don't think we should.
That's a good point.
I think you should make that to Hague, would you?
Right.
You know, they're thinking about how to report when you put out a list.
That's going to implicate the result.
Most of these people are blameless, you know.
That would not be acting unfair if we put out the number.
They covered a number of individuals, members of the National Security Council, defense, you know, various departments of the government, and some newsmen who, you know, have to admit it all.
Right.
Right.
They just say they won't go beyond that.
But you can't break the classification on that.
I agree.
I agree.
They'll say, now, why did you have Henry Brandon under Will, as a matter of fact?
We never ordered Brandon, if you recall.
That was Hooper.
He considered him a spy.
Henry, I think about a week after we were in, a Brandon report came in to a member who used to send him over.
He says, you know, Brandon was Hooper's man.
Well, we never thought he was.
In fact, our relations with him were excellent.
You might even tell Brandon that.
Yeah.
In the event his name drops.
Yeah, well, I'll wait a bit.
Yeah, I'll try.
What are you going to do this weekend?
Go to see your mother?
No, I think I'm going to stay here.
Well, I'll try.
It's a nice day.
Don't, uh, you know, fall late about this, but the main thing, as I said, speaking to that dinner the other night, we, the great tragedy would be to allow this goddamn thing to deter us or deflect us from the great goals that we're working for and that
I am really perfectly relaxed about it, Mr. President, right?
And despite your battles we will try to build, my office will be focused on making your summit a success.
That's right.
Well, that and it will be.
That and other things.
Yes, sir.
We've got to work on the other things.
No other problems of state or defense at the moment.
No.
No, I talked to Moore yesterday about Salt and Clemens and the other board now.
Yeah.
We won't even have to send you a directive.
He just told them that's what he had to do.
There was no chance of an agreement by the summit, which is what worries them most.
Yeah.
And that they should let us play the tactics.
All right.
What about...
Let's see, I think in the October 2, that's been announced now.
That was announced yesterday.
Right.
And that'll be a hard meeting for you because you haven't got many chips, but you never know.
Well, they asked me about Cambodia, and I said, gentlemen, I don't want to comment on the house.
It's a co-equal branch of the government.
What I do want to say is somebody should tell us how you can impose an agreement without either threats or incentives.
And they said, well, do you think it hurts you next week?
I said, well, I'll tell you this.
If they had asked me, I wouldn't have recommended it.
Goodbye.
All right, Henry.
Good.
Have a rest now.
You deserve it, old boy.
Thank you.
NARA Description
On May 12, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:22 pm to 12:30 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 165-015 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 165-15
Date: May 12, 1973
Time: 12:22 pm - 12:30 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table
The Camp David operator talked with the President.
Telephone call from Henry A. Kissinger
Kissinger talked with the President.
Watergate
-Kissinger’s press briefing
-Wiretaps
-Morton H. Halperin
-Kissinger’s access to intelligence reports
-National security
-Halperin
-Departure from Kissinger’s staff
-William D. Ruckelshaus’s forthcoming statement
Kissinger’s press briefing
-Forthcoming Soviet summit
-President’s preparations
-Leonid I. Brezhnev
Watergate
-Wiretaps
-Compared with previous administrations
-19-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 165-42 (cont’d)
-Number
-Robert F. Kennedy
-Leaks
-Kissinger
-Mood
Kissinger’s press briefing
-Forthcoming Soviet summit
-Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
Watergate
-Ruckelshaus’s forthcoming statement
-Wiretaps
-William A. K. (“Tony”) Lake
-Possible list
-Release
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
-Henry Brandon
-J. Edgar Hoover
-Reports
-Possible conversation with Kissinger
Kissinger’s schedule
Watergate
-Possible effect on administration
Foreign relations
-Kissinger’s role
-Forthcoming Soviet summit
-Defense Department and State Department
-SALT
-Kissinger’s conversations
-Adm. Thomas H. Moorer and William P. Clements, Jr.
-Timing of agreement
-Le Duc Tho
-Forthcoming meeting with Kissinger
-Kissinger’s press briefing
-20-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 165-42 (cont’d)
-Cambodian agreement
-House of Representatives
-LeverageAlso recorded on May 12, 1973
- 165-012 11:50 AM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Roy L. Ash talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:50 am to 11:56 am.
- 165-013 11:56 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:56 am and 11:58 am.
- 165-014 11:58 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Roy L. Ash talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:58 am to 12:00 pm.
- 165-016 12:30 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:30 pm and 12:31 pm.
- 165-017 12:31 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:31 pm to 12:36 pm.
- 165-018 12:36 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:36 pm and 12:37 pm.
- 165-019 12:37 PM · 17 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:37 pm to 12:54 pm.
- 165-020 12:54 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:54 pm and 12:59 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 165-015, May 12, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/165-015 (accessed October 12, 2026).