Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 165 › Conversation 165-017

Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate and L. Patrick Gray

Saturday, May 12, 1973 · 12:31 PM–12:36 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation165-017 on Tape 165StartSaturday, May 12, 1973 at 12:31 PMEndSaturday, May 12, 1973 at 12:36 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 165-017 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler consulted on managing public relations regarding the Watergate investigation and upcoming foreign policy developments. The discussion focused on drafting a press statement or orchestrating a strategic leak to clarify Nixon’s limited interactions with L. Patrick Gray and to refute allegations of presidential involvement in a cover-up. Additionally, they coordinated efforts to bolster support for a proposed commission on election reform by involving Republican leadership, while noting that Henry Kissinger’s recent briefings on the Soviet summit were successfully overshadowing Watergate concerns in the news cycle.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Yes, sir.
Are you going to have a briefing now?
No, we finished with Henry.
yeah it went very well it's a bulletin story and you know did they uh talk to him just a minute ago i asked him to report it well they asked him about that and he thought that would be the way the effect of that and i'm not ready to take these wires into them now the wires that are moving are straight soviet summit wires no reference to what he said and what he said was very strong and very clear that your office simply handled
comes across his desk, things relating to national security matters and matters relating to his staff and, you know, there's nothing moving on the wire yet.
I wondered if you'd had any chance to discuss how you get the damn gray, our side of the gray story out.
Yes, we're going to go one of two ways.
We have a few, we actually figure we have about an hour and 15 minutes to try and locate gray.
And if Gray doesn't do it, I'm going to issue a statement to the wires along this line that we discussed.
Yeah.
To get that moving along, you know, the points in the earlier conversation.
At the point that when I called Senator Reed Gray or Rick Silvac that I called Gray or, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't get into that.
Well, I want to talk to Buzzard before that, but there's ways to do that.
Any contact that you have with anyone...
from the standpoint of wanting to get to the bottom of it.
That's right.
As you said in your speech, any suggestion that the president participated or gave approval to any cover-up is absolutely, in other words, the word should be.
I just wrote down a couple things, if you might like it.
Any suggestion that he participated in any way that he approved or he approved of or had knowledge of any cover-up.
Right now, on the other hand,
knowledge of charges of cover-up.
That's right.
That's a different matter.
Yes, and that's why the President kept insisting.
Right.
All throughout, kept to the bottom of this.
Right.
And as far as the grading is concerned, if only that little tidbit could get out that the President told Grady, how would you handle that?
On a very highly sourced basis.
And then put the quote in, huh?
Right.
That's what I think we'll do at about probably 1.30.
Our best ploy is gray.
I don't want to move this way until we're even thinking about the neighbor to go over and knock on his door, you know?
Right, right.
Okay.
But the President, the bulletin on AP is that Soviet Communist Party leader Brezhnev will hold a summit meeting with President Nixon in the United States June 18th and 26th.
Then it goes into the...
pointed to in the U.S. summit, he will see important developments concerning the second phase of strategic armed limitation talks.
Yes, Drake, we believe when the president and the general secretary meet, the broad direction of the subsequent negotiations can be established and accelerated.
You know, it's that type of thing.
And then he referred to the LIDAR-TO meeting this Thursday and the intent to carry on the policy in Cambodia because the
The agreement simply can't be enforced without an incentive and so forth.
But on the other matter, I think the fact that it came up and the way Henry handled it will make it blow down a little key.
But I think any intervention, quite frankly, when someone asks him a question, they tend to blow it out of proportion a little bit, I think.
Henry may be doing that.
I told him he was.
Yeah.
So I think he's in good shape now.
Sure, sure.
Well, the point is that we're going to continue to get these stories, but the main thing is for us to continue to try to get our stories to override.
That's right, that's right.
Point two, with regard to a follow-up on the commission deal, why can't Timmons give a call to Scott Ford, Scott Loves to Leak, and say yes, that they discussed this matter, and have Scott Ford and Bush
praise it, and maybe Buzzard could get Spanish to praise it.
How would that be?
Okay, good.
For a follow-up?
Yeah.
Yeah, this is a very good idea.
And the way that it was started, you can talk to Guy about what he got, the way that it should have been.
Tripartite.
It's a beautiful story.
Yeah.
Four by the president, four by the civil court.
Yes, sir.
Cover all aspects of campaign activities, financing, et cetera, et cetera.
Right.
You did a good job with the leak.
It's a massive story.
It's a banner-edged story in the Star.
Yeah.
Which is very good.
Right.
Right.
Well, get to work on this other thing.
Right.
We are seeing what you're going to start to meet now.
Well, I'm going to go down and see Al in about five minutes.
Bye.
Bye.
All right.
And that buzzard is still making effort to reach Gray.
But if we don't reach Gray, then I'm going to work out a leak system to get this out so it rides by height tomorrow.
All right.
Done.
Okay, sir.

NARA Description

On May 12, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:31 pm to 12:36 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 165-017 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 165-17

Date: May 12, 1973
Time: 12:31 pm - 12:36 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.

     Henry A. Kissinger’s briefing
          -President’s conversation with Kissinger
          -Lead news stories
          -Meeting with Ziegler
                -News wires
                      -Soviet summit
          -Watergate
                -[Wiretaps]
                      -National Security Council [NSC] staff
                      -Memorandums
                                        -21-

             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                         Conversation No. 165-42 (cont’d)

Watergate
     -L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III
          -Ziegler’s attempts to locate
          -Ziegler’s forthcoming press statement
                 -President’s contact with Gray
                 -J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
                 -President’s alleged role in cover-up
                 -Timing

Lead news stories
     -Forthcoming Soviet summit
           -Leonid I. Brezhnev
           -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
           -Trade
     -Kissinger’s forthcoming meeting with Le Duc Tho
           -Cambodia

Watergate
     -Kissinger’s briefing
           -Wiretaps

Commission on Election Reform
    -William E. Timmons’s possible calls to Hugh Scott and Gerald R. Ford
    -Scott, Ford and George H. W. Bush
    -John C. Stennis’s possible reaction
          -Buzhardt\
    -Leonard Garment
    -Structure of commission
    -Campaign financing
    -Lead news stories
          -Washington Star

Watergate
     -Ziegler’s forthcoming meeting with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
           -Buzhardt’s attempts to contact Gray
                  -Leaks
                                             -22-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                            Conversation No. 165-42 (cont’d)

Also recorded on May 12, 1973

  • 165-014 11:58 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Roy L. Ash talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:58 am to 12:00 pm.
  • 165-015 12:22 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:22 pm to 12:30 pm.
  • 165-016 12:30 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:30 pm and 12:31 pm.
  • 165-018 12:36 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:36 pm and 12:37 pm.
  • 165-019 12:37 PM · 17 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:37 pm to 12:54 pm.
  • 165-020 12:54 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:54 pm and 12:59 pm.
  • 165-021 12:59 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:59 pm to 1:03 pm.
  • 165-022 1:03 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:03 pm and 2:04 pm.

All 25 conversations from May 12, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 165-017, May 12, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/165-017 (accessed October 12, 2026).