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Conversation 165-021

TapeTape 165StartSaturday, May 12, 1973 at 12:59 PMEndSaturday, May 12, 1973 at 1:03 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haig, Alexander M., Jr.Recording deviceCamp David Study Table
AI Summary

President Nixon and Alexander Haig discuss legal strategy regarding the Watergate investigation, specifically focusing on John Dean’s role and his potential testimony. They review documentation of Dean's interactions with Lt. Gen. Vernon Walters, aiming to frame these as standard investigative procedures while distancing the President from Dean’s actions. The two conclude that J. Fred Buzhardt should consult with Richard Helms to assert national security privilege over specific records to limit their disclosure during the ongoing inquiry.

Watergate investigationJohn DeanExecutive privilegeVernon WaltersNational securityRichard Helms
AudioNARA Description

On May 12, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:59 pm to 1:03 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 165-021 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 165-21

Date: May 12, 1973
Time: 12:59 pm - 1:03 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

     Watergate      

          -John W. Dean III 

                -Presence at meeting with Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters 

                      -Possible memoranda of conversation [memcons]            

                -Contacts with Walters       

                      -John D. Ehrlichman        

                -Role in Watergate investigation     

                -Possible statement      

                                             -26-


                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM 


                                      Tape Subject Log 

                                     (rev. February-2012)

                                                            Conversation No. 165-21 (cont’d)

                      -Ehrlichman
                -Conversation with Walters         

                      -Memcons         

                      -Presidency        

           -Richard M. Helms
                -Possible conversations        

                      -Haig       

                      -J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.      

                             -National security      

                -Possible memcons          

                      -National security        

                -Schedule
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello?
Yes, sir.
Oh, I have one other thing.
Refresh my memory.
Dean was not present at that meeting, was he?
No.
No, he was not.
That was good.
And he has no memcom.
I mean, he doesn't have...
He was not there.
He was not there and could have no...
But what he would have would be contacts with John subsequent to it.
Yes.
And there is reference to it in his contact with Walters.
He said, in conjunction with your meeting yesterday, I've got to talk to you.
You can call John Ehrlichman if you want to check on this, which Walters did.
And John said, go ahead and see him.
So, you know, that's what I'm talking about, the evolution of the case.
Yeah, yeah.
But on the other hand, that would have again been, I'm just trying to put our face on it, the normal procedure that he was in charge of the goddamn investigation for us.
Exactly right.
And so he said, talk to Walters about the thing.
Exactly.
And that's why, indeed, of course, he may go out and say, Ehrlichman,
to keep this thing under the hat and all that sort of thing, right?
That's right.
That's right.
He's not going to be believed.
I mean, Dean, on that point, that would be Dean versus Erlichman.
Right, exactly.
And Walter's conversations with Dean, you say, are his men comes on that, which is important.
Not only his men comes, because that's all Dean did.
No, our clean.
Very helpful.
Very clean.
Why are they helpful?
I mean, they were helpful in the context that he was the real bad guy that was putting the wrong kind of twist into it.
And the fact that he couldn't... You see, if he had had presidential authority, when he got continually stymied, God even used it ten times over.
And...
Roberts kept saying, I am an attempt at presidential authority.
Well, he kept saying, look, you're trying to drag the presidency into a matter to resolve bad incompetence.
You can't do that.
And so you're going to figure anything Dean has talked about, he will testify to.
Oh, yes, sir.
It's that.
But then you've got Walters too, I see.
Well, that might, I mean, the critical one is the first one.
And I think in terms of Helms, I think it's back perhaps.
Don't you believe you should talk to him?
Or should Buzard, or I think Buzard first.
Then we've got a big lay of it.
A lay of it.
and he would talk to him in terms of that we consider that meeting to have been a totally national security privilege meeting, except for the part that dealt with the Watergate, which he can feel free to testify to.
That's right.
That's right.
And, incidentally, if he has any MemCon or anything himself, he has got, you know, getting it over here is going to be difficult.
But if he's got his file, he simply says, I cannot release it because of the national security, right?
You know, he can turn back to that position, can't he?
At the worst, he has to do that.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
Okay, Wes.
I figure that's going to be tonight, so you don't know the arrival time yet.
No, I understand.
Just check on it, right?
Yeah.
All right, good.
Bye.
All right.
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