Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 165 › Conversation 165-029
Nixon phone call with Haig on Watergate and Vernon A. Walters
Saturday, May 12, 1973 · 2:27 PM–2:35 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 8 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Alexander Haig discuss the administration’s strategy regarding Watergate-related documents, specifically focusing on the handling of memoranda of conversation (memcons) and the containment of information held by Vernon Walters and Richard Helms. They emphasize the necessity of maintaining a unified stance that no such records exist or will be released, framing this as a critical protection of presidential papers under the guise of national security. Furthermore, they coordinate efforts to contact L. Patrick Gray for testimony and confirm the preparation of additional materials by Leonard Garment for review at Camp David.
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Transcript (AI-generated)
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Hello.
Yes, Mr. President.
I understand that was a false alarm.
You didn't get the boy.
No, I did not get through.
I just did not get through.
That's all right.
Bye.
We're just going to keep trying, and he'll probably call back.
Sure, he'll call.
Sometime.
Fine.
If not, send the man up there.
Right.
Now, there's apparently some concern about these taps going back to gray, and what Bob has it, or John.
John originally conveyed the word that he thought it was the best thing to do.
It is the best thing to do.
What test?
You know, we gave this package back to Gray this morning to take back to the Bureau.
Not to Gray, but to...
I mean, to Ruckelshaus.
Ruckelshaus.
Sure.
And it is by far the best thing to do.
Of course.
Absolutely.
Well, I know you might have been talking to Bob or John.
No, no, no.
I haven't talked to either one.
But anyway, do it.
No, no, I haven't talked to either one.
No, sir.
You know, you and I have talked.
That's it.
Okay, sir, I just... No, no.
I mean, God get him out.
I mean, that's good.
God damn it, a lot of people, for example, are pissed off that Ellsberg got off.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Second point, is Walters in town?
Yes, he's here.
Yes.
I think it's very important for
since you don't want to talk to him, apparently, that Muzzard had a damn good talk with him and said, look, we've got to know what the, you know, the major, what the damage is here.
And I know he's had some talk, let's say, one, you may have been caught.
First, that's two, do you consider that those are all, you know, or anything?
Third, did, did, uh,
Were they available to anybody?
I mean, for example, the Helms.
Well, we know they were.
We knew he had ridden them.
Helms read them, fine.
But they were not given to him.
Fine.
But we'll double-check again.
Yeah.
Well, now, that brings us to the fourth point, as to how Helms is to be handled.
I mean, he's not going to expect that Monday, if the good God, they can get to him between now and Monday, can't they?
Uh, no, sir, I don't think so.
I, uh...
He's supposedly arriving in London very late tonight.
Right.
And he's going to get some sleep and then come right ahead and be in here Monday.
Yep.
Now, who would talk to Helms?
Bizaard.
Right.
And Bizaard will tell him cold turkey that any memcons cannot be put in.
Any oral evidence can't be.
That's right.
And, well, we'll look at the... Well, we can't do it anyhow.
We can't have one do it and the other not.
So we have to hold a consistent lure in here.
No, but on the Memcoms.
There's no Memcoms, period.
No Memcoms.
That's right.
But, uh, but, but, but, yeah.
Bazaar has already checked with Warbirds, I believe.
We've had two sessions.
I was in on the first one.
And he says that he did not give his Memcoms to Helms.
To anyone, to Helms or to anyone else.
And then he hallowed each one.
Actually, he had one and one.
One copy and one original.
And we sent him back.
We could bring his original to us, which he did.
We now have it.
And that's the way he would operate.
He's a true charitable fellow.
Very, very.
But the point is now, we're... And he doesn't believe that Helms would have made him M-Com.
No, he doesn't know, and I haven't asked him specifically yet.
We're going to ask him this.
Right.
And there's a chance that Helms did, but of course he was only in on the one section.
Now, hopefully he did that and also made one of his discussions with you, because that's very important.
He did tell me that the CIA was not involved.
That was after this.
After this, yes, yes.
He was after this.
and dropped in the Oval Office briefly and said the CIA was not involved.
And I said, I'm glad to hear that.
See, that's quite important.
It's very helpful.
Yeah.
The event then comes out, yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
No, I remember the conversation.
He remembered, too.
He came and told me this.
He said, I want you to know this.
We were talking about other subjects, and he brought this up.
I said, I'm glad to hear that.
That's going to be...
It's a good thing for him to include.
Right.
Well, anyway, I have a feeling we don't have to worry about Helms for other reasons.
That's my feeling.
He's got a hell of a lot of fish to fry that have nothing to do with this goddamn thing.
I don't know.
You can't talk, can you?
No, I think you'll never find it.
He's very incommunicative.
He's not going to be helpful or harmful.
I don't want to be helpful.
I just want to be harmful, that's all.
That's right.
I think you should say that he's left us to the waters.
That would be what his strategy was in the beginning, and I think we can expect him to pursue that.
Yep.
Now, you will talk to the waters again and say, no, look, we've got no other copies.
And here it is, and here's where we stand, right?
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
They are not to be out.
No, no.
We could come hell or high water.
We'll just say that's the way it's going to be.
That's right.
And that's all.
And also, we can say that's another reason.
All presidential, well, not all presidential papers, because we released this damn thing out there to Ellsberg, you see.
Oh, well, that isn't it.
You see, that isn't a presidential paper.
That's exactly what we're doing.
We're drawing a clear line between things that belong here as presidential papers, and those things belong to the FBI.
That's right.
And that's a lot more important reason why we got those records back where they belong.
That action strengthens our ability to hold these other documents.
And the national security documents will not be released.
I'm sorry you don't get to play golf today, but I'm going to be out for a couple of hours.
I'm sorry with you.
Go ahead, sir.
Get out and get some fresh air.
Get some fresh air.
I'll call you about 4.30, okay?
Very good.
And by that time, good God, I hope this damn great.
Yeah, I mean, he shouldn't go out like this, you know, and not be available.
I assume he thinks that, well, I think he's under an awful lot of pressure from press and what have you.
I understand that, but this is the White House calling now.
And the point is, too, that we have to remember is that my guess is that I just don't believe Pat Gray would ever give testimony of any guy that he thought would be harmful to the president.
I'm confident that that seller, we would have read it long before now.
Yeah, the president's putting out everything bad they can.
That's right.
That's right.
The only bad thing they put out is that he warned me.
Well, so I was warned.
And that's only headlining, you see.
When you read the stories, they're not that bad.
That's the way they lead it.
That's right.
Okay, Al.
Good.
Follow up then.
And the boys are going forward.
Garment et al.
on the other projects.
Yes, I just talked to Lynn about that.
We should have a package for you if you want it up at Camp David tomorrow afternoon.
Okay, I'd like to about 5 o'clock.
Good.
Bye.
All right.
NARA Description
On May 12, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 2:27 pm to 2:35 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 165-029 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 165-29
Date: May 12, 1973
Time: 2:27 pm - 2:35 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table
The President talked with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
Watergate
-L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III
-White House attempts to contact
-Wiretaps
-John D. Ehrlichman and H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
-Wiretaps
-Material for William D. Ruckelshaus
-President’s contacts with Haldeman and Ehrlichman
-Daniel Ellsberg
-Acquittal
-Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters
-Location
-Possible conversation with J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
-Memoranda of conversation [Memcons]
-Availability to Richard M. Helms
-Helms
-Schedule
-30-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 165-42 (cont’d)
-Forthcoming conversation with Buzhardt
-Memcons
-Walters
-Conversations with Haig and Buzhardt
-Memcons
-Helms
-Possible memcons
-Conversation with the President concerning Watergate
-Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] involvement
-Walters
-Possible conversation with Haig
-Memcons
-Presidential papers
-Compared to Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] documents
-Release to public
-National security
President’s schedule
Watergate
-Gray
-White House attempts to contact
-Testimony
-Press coverage
Leonard Garment
-Conversation with Haig
-Package to Camp DavidAlso recorded on May 12, 1973
- 165-021 12:59 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:59 pm to 1:03 pm.
- 165-022 1:03 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:03 pm and 2:04 pm.
- 165-023 2:04 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 2:04 pm to 2:10 pm.
- 165-024 2:10 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 2:10 pm and 2:11 pm.
- 165-025 2:11 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David from 2:11 pm to 2:13 pm.
- 165-026 2:13 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 2:13 pm and 2:17 pm.
- 165-027 2:17 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David from 2:17 pm to 2:21 pm.
- 165-028 2:21 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 2:21 pm and 2:27 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 165-029, May 12, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/165-029 (accessed October 12, 2026).