Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 165-029
Date: Saturday, May 12, 1973 at 2:27 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haig, Alexander M., Jr.
Recording device: Camp David Study Table
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/165-029

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hello.
[0:01] Yes, Mr. President.
[0:01] I understand that was a false alarm.
[0:03] You didn't get the boy.
[0:04] No, I did not get through.
[0:05] I just did not get through.
[0:07] That's all right.
[0:08] Bye.
[0:10] We're just going to keep trying, and he'll probably call back.
[0:13] Sure, he'll call.
[0:15] Sometime.
[0:15] Fine.
[0:16] If not, send the man up there.
[0:18] Right.
[0:18] Now, there's apparently some concern about these taps going back to gray, and what Bob has it, or John.
[0:27] John originally conveyed the word that he thought it was the best thing to do.
[0:32] It is the best thing to do.
[0:34] What test?
[0:35] You know, we gave this package back to Gray this morning to take back to the Bureau.
[0:41] Not to Gray, but to...
[0:42] I mean, to Ruckelshaus.
[0:43] Ruckelshaus.
[0:44] Sure.
[0:45] And it is by far the best thing to do.
[0:47] Of course.
[0:48] Absolutely.
[0:48] Well, I know you might have been talking to Bob or John.
[0:52] No, no, no.
[0:52] I haven't talked to either one.
[0:53] But anyway, do it.
[0:55] No, no, I haven't talked to either one.
[0:57] No, sir.
[0:58] You know, you and I have talked.
[1:00] That's it.
[1:01] Okay, sir, I just... No, no.
[1:03] I mean, God get him out.
[1:05] I mean, that's good.
[1:06] God damn it, a lot of people, for example, are pissed off that Ellsberg got off.
[1:10] That's exactly right.
[1:12] That's exactly right.
[1:14] Second point, is Walters in town?
[1:18] Yes, he's here.
[1:19] Yes.
[1:20] I think it's very important for
[1:22] since you don't want to talk to him, apparently, that Muzzard had a damn good talk with him and said, look, we've got to know what the, you know, the major, what the damage is here.
[1:34] And I know he's had some talk, let's say, one, you may have been caught.
[1:42] First, that's two, do you consider that those are all, you know, or anything?
[1:47] Third, did, did, uh,
[1:50] Were they available to anybody?
[1:52] I mean, for example, the Helms.
[1:56] Well, we know they were.
[1:57] We knew he had ridden them.
[1:59] Helms read them, fine.
[2:01] But they were not given to him.
[2:02] Fine.
[2:02] But we'll double-check again.
[2:03] Yeah.
[2:04] Well, now, that brings us to the fourth point, as to how Helms is to be handled.
[2:09] I mean, he's not going to expect that Monday, if the good God, they can get to him between now and Monday, can't they?
[2:15] Uh, no, sir, I don't think so.
[2:17] I, uh...
[2:19] He's supposedly arriving in London very late tonight.
[2:24] Right.
[2:24] And he's going to get some sleep and then come right ahead and be in here Monday.
[2:28] Yep.
[2:29] Now, who would talk to Helms?
[2:31] Bizaard.
[2:33] Right.
[2:34] And Bizaard will tell him cold turkey that any memcons cannot be put in.
[2:41] Any oral evidence can't be.
[2:44] That's right.
[2:45] And, well, we'll look at the... Well, we can't do it anyhow.
[2:47] We can't have one do it and the other not.
[2:50] So we have to hold a consistent lure in here.
[2:52] No, but on the Memcoms.
[2:54] There's no Memcoms, period.
[2:56] No Memcoms.
[2:58] That's right.
[3:00] But, uh, but, but, but, yeah.
[3:04] Bazaar has already checked with Warbirds, I believe.
[3:08] We've had two sessions.
[3:10] I was in on the first one.
[3:11] And he says that he did not give his Memcoms to Helms.
[3:15] To anyone, to Helms or to anyone else.
[3:18] And then he hallowed each one.
[3:22] Actually, he had one and one.
[3:24] One copy and one original.
[3:27] And we sent him back.
[3:30] We could bring his original to us, which he did.
[3:32] We now have it.
[3:35] And that's the way he would operate.
[3:37] He's a true charitable fellow.
[3:39] Very, very.
[3:41] But the point is now, we're... And he doesn't believe that Helms would have made him M-Com.
[3:49] No, he doesn't know, and I haven't asked him specifically yet.
[3:54] We're going to ask him this.
[3:56] Right.
[3:59] And there's a chance that Helms did, but of course he was only in on the one section.
[4:04] Now, hopefully he did that and also made one of his discussions with you, because that's very important.
[4:11] He did tell me that the CIA was not involved.
[4:14] That was after this.
[4:16] After this, yes, yes.
[4:17] He was after this.
[4:18] and dropped in the Oval Office briefly and said the CIA was not involved.
[4:22] And I said, I'm glad to hear that.
[4:24] See, that's quite important.
[4:25] It's very helpful.
[4:28] Yeah.
[4:29] The event then comes out, yeah.
[4:30] That's right.
[4:31] That's right.
[4:33] No, I remember the conversation.
[4:34] He remembered, too.
[4:35] He came and told me this.
[4:37] He said, I want you to know this.
[4:37] We were talking about other subjects, and he brought this up.
[4:40] I said, I'm glad to hear that.
[4:43] That's going to be...
[4:45] It's a good thing for him to include.
[4:47] Right.
[4:52] Well, anyway, I have a feeling we don't have to worry about Helms for other reasons.
[4:56] That's my feeling.
[4:58] He's got a hell of a lot of fish to fry that have nothing to do with this goddamn thing.
[5:03] I don't know.
[5:04] You can't talk, can you?
[5:06] No, I think you'll never find it.
[5:08] He's very incommunicative.
[5:09] He's not going to be helpful or harmful.
[5:13] I don't want to be helpful.
[5:15] I just want to be harmful, that's all.
[5:17] That's right.
[5:17] I think you should say that he's left us to the waters.
[5:22] That would be what his strategy was in the beginning, and I think we can expect him to pursue that.
[5:27] Yep.
[5:28] Now, you will talk to the waters again and say, no, look, we've got no other copies.
[5:33] And here it is, and here's where we stand, right?
[5:36] Absolutely.
[5:37] I couldn't agree more.
[5:39] They are not to be out.
[5:40] No, no.
[5:41] We could come hell or high water.
[5:42] We'll just say that's the way it's going to be.
[5:45] That's right.
[5:45] And that's all.
[5:46] And also, we can say that's another reason.
[5:49] All presidential, well, not all presidential papers, because we released this damn thing out there to Ellsberg, you see.
[5:58] Oh, well, that isn't it.
[5:59] You see, that isn't a presidential paper.
[6:01] That's exactly what we're doing.
[6:02] We're drawing a clear line between things that belong here as presidential papers, and those things belong to the FBI.
[6:11] That's right.
[6:13] And that's a lot more important reason why we got those records back where they belong.
[6:19] That action strengthens our ability to hold these other documents.
[6:26] And the national security documents will not be released.
[6:33] I'm sorry you don't get to play golf today, but I'm going to be out for a couple of hours.
[6:38] I'm sorry with you.
[6:39] Go ahead, sir.
[6:40] Get out and get some fresh air.
[6:41] Get some fresh air.
[6:42] I'll call you about 4.30, okay?
[6:45] Very good.
[6:46] And by that time, good God, I hope this damn great.
[6:49] Yeah, I mean, he shouldn't go out like this, you know, and not be available.
[6:53] I assume he thinks that, well, I think he's under an awful lot of pressure from press and what have you.
[6:59] I understand that, but this is the White House calling now.
[7:02] And the point is, too, that we have to remember is that my guess is that I just don't believe Pat Gray would ever give testimony of any guy that he thought would be harmful to the president.
[7:15] I'm confident that that seller, we would have read it long before now.
[7:19] Yeah, the president's putting out everything bad they can.
[7:21] That's right.
[7:22] That's right.
[7:25] The only bad thing they put out is that he warned me.
[7:27] Well, so I was warned.
[7:29] And that's only headlining, you see.
[7:31] When you read the stories, they're not that bad.
[7:35] That's the way they lead it.
[7:36] That's right.
[7:37] Okay, Al.
[7:38] Good.
[7:39] Follow up then.
[7:41] And the boys are going forward.
[7:43] Garment et al.
[7:44] on the other projects.
[7:45] Yes, I just talked to Lynn about that.
[7:47] We should have a package for you if you want it up at Camp David tomorrow afternoon.
[7:52] Okay, I'd like to about 5 o'clock.
[7:54] Good.
[7:55] Bye.
[7:55] All right.