Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 167 › Conversation 167-004

Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate and White Paper

Saturday, May 19, 1973 · 7:09 PM–7:14 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation167-004 on Tape 167StartSaturday, May 19, 1973 at 7:09 PMEndSaturday, May 19, 1973 at 7:14 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 167-004 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Ronald Ziegler discussed the progress of a White House strategy team, led by Alexander Haig and others, which was drafting a comprehensive White Paper to counter Watergate-related allegations. Nixon emphasized the necessity of preparing damaging counter-information regarding John Dean, specifically citing Dean's alleged subornation of perjury and his potential involvement with John Mitchell in the Robert Vesco case. The participants affirmed that they have sufficient information to discredit Dean if he continues to implicate the President or his top staff.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello?
Yes, sir.
How are you coming on the project?
Fine.
Everyone's off at work now.
Right.
Right.
Nothing new.
No, sir.
The Norfolk thing played fine.
Yes, yes.
You indicated that, yeah.
No, I mean on TV.
Oh, it did?
Yeah.
Showed good crowds and so forth.
Good crowds and everything.
Good.
Good.
Al, all of you worked on it together, huh?
On the project this afternoon?
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
We met with Al and Pat, Ray Price, and Lynn Garment, and Buzz Hart Buchanan.
Yes, sir.
Right.
They're all on salvo, huh?
Yes, sir.
Everyone.
It's a good group, too.
Good.
Good.
They think they can meet the deadline of Monday morning?
Yes, sir.
That's what they're working toward.
All right.
Okay, thank you very much.
So everything's rolling along here fine, and we're in good shape, Mr. President.
Well, okay.
The main thing, what?
Well, I was going to say, the main thing is that for me not to worry about it.
That's exactly right.
Yes, sir.
And it is important, I think, that you don't.
I mean, you've been through an awful lot here.
Yeah, but don't worry about that.
Well, I know, but it's a matter of...
I've got to be sure that, you know...
we uh do the right thing get in command of this damn thing and well we're we're moving into your uh if you know we've got to uh one thing that occurred to me ron that you might get into is uh in terms of the dean thing is to is to get the uh stuff together you know that he won't like to have come out like his
meeting with Magruder and, you know, subarnation and perjury, which he's very sensitive about.
Don't you think a few of those things we ought to have ready to go?
Well, I think we do, yes, sir.
Right, and somebody's working on that, and that should be a project for somebody at least.
or you don't think so well i think we have all of those things you know that we have lined up here and what we're doing now is getting everything down on paper and that that certainly could be a part of a you know a strategy if we have to you know at some point yes move there i think we have enough of that that we're ready to do it you see you can't let uh a situation develop where all we have is dean uh crapping on uh
Not only Ehrlichman and all of them, but even on the president.
Right.
And without our, you know, letting them know we have a few, you know, bullets in the gun.
Well, he knows that, you know.
How do you know?
Dean.
Dean knows it.
He sure does know it.
Why?
Well, because of the comment I made to him down in Florida.
Yeah.
In other words, that is firmly fixed in his mind.
He also knows, because I've had indications that he also knows that there are an awful lot of people here that can just totally destroy any suggestion that he did not leave the very clear impression that he conducted a thorough investigation for you.
Do you see?
Yeah.
He knows all of those things.
Even though he will say he was ordered to do it by somebody else and this and that.
Well, that's immaterial.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
It may be, of course, that his closest tie here is, rather than being Ehrlichman, is probably Mitchell.
That's my guess, but I don't know.
I have a feeling that way.
What do you think?
Could be Mitchell.
Yes, sir.
I mean, you even look at the Vesco thing where he made a call R2.
Do you see?
Yeah.
You look at the whole Caulfield thing.
I think it could well be Mitchell.
could well be this caulfield uh had his contacts didn't have him with ehrlichman did he no uh matter of fact as i i recall he he uh has already referred to the fact that he had contacts with dean on on the matter i see well be sure all that's put together in this too not as part of our whole report uh mainly to have ready to fire away in case he fires away okay right we

NARA Description

On May 19, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David from 7:09 pm to 7:14 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 167-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 167-4

Date: May 19, 1973
Time: 7:09 pm - 7:14 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.

     Watergate
          -White House response
               -Forthcoming White Paper

     President’s Norfolk speech
           -Press coverage

     Watergate
          -White House response
          -Forthcoming White Paper
                -Ziegler’s meeting
                      -Alexander M. Haig, Jr., Leonard Garment, Patrick J. Buchanan,
                       Raymond K. Price, Jr., and J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
                -Preparations
          -John W. Dean, III
                -Jeb Stuart Magruder
                -Subornation of perjury
                -Allegations
                      -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman and President
                -Conversation with Ziegler in Florida
          -Dean
                -John N. Mitchell
                      -Robert Vesco case
                      -John J. (“Jack”) Calfield
          -Caulfield
                -Contacts
                      -Ehrlichman
                      -Dean
                                               -3-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Also recorded on May 19, 1973

  • 923-004 10:54 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:54 am and 11:02 am.
  • 923-005 11:02 AM · 1 hr 39 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, Stephen B. Bull, and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:02 am and 12:47 pm.
  • 923-006 11:48 AM · 54 sec — unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:48 am and 12:47 pm.
  • 923-007 11:48 AM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:48 am and 12:47 pm.
  • 923-008 12:47 PM · 1 min — unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:47 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 167-001 5:30 PM · 18 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:30 pm and 7:08 pm.
  • 167-002 7:08 PM · 15 sec — Camp David operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at Camp David at 7:08 pm.
  • 167-003 7:08 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 7:08 pm and 7:09 pm.

All 15 conversations from May 19, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 167-004, May 19, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/167-004 (accessed October 12, 2026).