On May 20, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David from 10:30 am to 10:44 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 167-006 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hello.
Good morning, sir.
Hi, Ron.
Well, you've got another Sunday to work, I guess.
Yes, sir.
We're getting ready today.
Yeah.
Are you at the office?
I'm on my way, yes.
I'll be down there in about 15 minutes.
Right, right.
Well, give me a...
I made some good progress last night, I think.
Yeah.
Give me a rundown, just a brief one on the news.
I don't have the papers here.
I don't want to look at them.
Well, the thing at Norfolk played well.
The good, good picture from St. Jude's Star was that...
You and Governor Holt and your statement on the National Defense of North Vietnam has played well.
The point of the good reception and good crowds is coming through.
It particularly came through, as I mentioned to you last night, with the network news, which is the important thing.
Right, of course.
Millions of people with that impression.
The foreign policy news is starting to...
intrude back on the front pages of the Brezhnev meeting in Germany with Willie Braun and Henry's meeting.
What kind of Watergate stories do they tell you today?
Well, the Watergate thing, really nothing is advanced.
It's nothing new.
They get into some of the fun stuff.
In other words, the funds that went to the defendants and
still playing around with that uh cia thing but just at the level of the meeting that will sell no uh no advance in terms of uh any of the mem cons or anything of that sort so uh yeah there's nothing to concern ourselves with that today right it's basically the same same thing on the uh
the flow of the money, the GAO reports.
Yeah.
That's going to be going on and on.
And that, of course, Ron, is not something that concerns me, particularly from our standpoint.
I think people get bored to death with that crap.
Yeah, absolutely.
What concerns us are these other things.
All the Helms meeting, of course, mainly because of the rhetoric indicating that we were trying to turn it off.
That's right.
But that's something.
That's what we'll work on.
Unfortunately, you know, if it weren't for what he has, if he could just take out what he had in there about Dean, there'd be no problem with the rest, you see.
That's right.
Because Dean coming to him and saying, put them on the payroll and everything, it looks as if the first meeting, the purpose of that was to get them to put them on the payroll.
That's right.
I don't know.
I think you can handle that, though.
I mean, strangely enough, I don't know.
I mean, good God, I mean, I...
If we can, we'll see.
No, we can.
Absolutely.
Let me get just a little feel of how you're feeling about the thing.
Want me available in the morning around 9 o'clock to start looking over, talking about the general picture, right?
I'd say... Or do you want me earlier?
No, I'd say that's certainly soon enough, and we'll have a better gauge on how we're proceeding this afternoon.
Right.
Peter?
This afternoon?
Yes, sir.
Fine, fine.
Well, give me a ring.
Give me a ring.
Fine.
You call me, or do you want me to call you?
Well, either way, Mr. President, we could call you at 4.
We could call you at 4.
Call me when you're ready at 4, 4 o'clock or so.
All right, but don't let it...
If I'm not here, it's all right, but the whole point is just mainly to do whenever you feel you want me, I'll be ready.
Well, no.
main thing is don't there probably really isn't anything to call about but that's all right with regard to uh see uh then it is it would be the plan as i understand it to uh to meet with the leaders right now when they're they're giving thought to what leaders should be invited are they to that they have the leadership and perhaps because of the helms thing the armed services
Well, yes, absolutely.
Because they're people we have to win over.
We have to reassure them.
It would seem to me that the Big Five plus the armed services and maybe appropriations, I don't know.
We haven't.
but I don't want to yeah yeah but I think armed service is beyond all question right and and incidentally with them I would have even though he isn't a ranking fellow I'd have a Jackson in on the damn thing you know so that he could hear it himself that's that and then it would be your thought and have the paper
approximately noon that at the same day sometime on tuesday right that will have a better feel right you know what time as we progress through the day of it right
uh we will have to play this by ear but if they if the waller's memcon should break on monday i'm not so sure that we wanted it to appear that this whole statement was rushed out just because of the memcons i see what i'm getting at right
And Fred's been pretty consistent in what he said.
Yeah, he sure knows those guys.
Yeah, in other words, you can trust what he says.
Yeah, well, if he does, well, if it does, then that's better.
It's better that we come first.
Right.
It would appear to me, too, then, when you talk about a follow-up, you meant to, in terms of getting our own congressmen, senators, and so forth, to say, now, look here, this is it, and...
and uh in our own media people across the country a client on his bicycle right things like that is that what you have in mind absolutely so a part of it you see the problem of my following up is that i've got the pow thing thursday and i i'm not sure that i can go with a press conference on wednesday or something like that i think i don't think i could be quite ready for one
or if you were thinking in those terms, I should begin getting myself sort of in the framework part.
I don't think the press conference on Wednesday.
You see, the way Ron and I looked at the week, if you could just sort of put your mind to it for a minute, the way I look at the week, this would go Tuesday, the
And then they'll yak about it all day, Wednesday, and then Thursday I do the POW thing.
And then, of course, we're going to go to Florida for a very long weekend.
After all, it is Memorial Day.
And there will be no hearings that weekend, too, and so forth and so on.
It doesn't seem to me that that would be a good time to let the country let me sort of catch its breath a little on this before I hit again.
Or would that make sense to you, a little or not?
uh i would like to talk to the fellas about today a little more sure sure before deciding before deciding yeah well if it's decided that i should go on a press thing on wednesday i'll do it well my my personal
Yeah.
You see, the Beth Kemper thing was to be used as a pretty good bullet when we use it.
I'm inclined to think that the best time for you to do that would be after Memorial Day.
Yeah.
And before Iceland.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Something like that.
Yes, sir.
When I could have a chance to get a little sun.
That's correct.
That would allow...
Yeah.
And to see how this thing, and also to see how this thing sorts out.
That's right.
You see, the problem with the press conference is that we don't know how the goddamn thing is going to sort out and who's going to respond to it and how and so forth.
Then we'll know what the questions are.
You see, that's the problem with going too soon.
We'll let her sort out a little while.
My judgment is that the best time to do it would be the week after, you know, the Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon or
even though I realize that you know the things like Norfolk and so forth and Meridian are not our froth I do have a feeling that once we return from Iceland so
that moving out into the country for any kind of an event about once a week is just a hell of a good idea.
Yes, sir, it is.
What do you think?
Absolutely.
It changes our attitude.
Well, not our attitude, but I even think the press's attitude is changed a bit by, not changed, but it's affected by it, don't you think?
Yes, I do.
uh we we don't just sit here in washington it shows that we're out meeting people you know and they can't they can't write about the embattled president you know that's right that's exactly right they sure couldn't write that yesterday could they of course not that's why i think the california thing is good too you know moving out there for a good long stay yes sir yeah
my view would be at the present time to go out there around the right after uh well as a matter of fact i'll go out there and let that be that brush that's the last stop and i'll just stay right and then stay through the whole goddamn month of july right and that's going to be the opera source of operations and then
come back here for, I think there's some sort of dinner for somebody to knock or somebody in July and come back and do that.
And then by going, I think we ought to go out there around about his poor labor day and stay the whole damn month of September.
Right.
Don't you think so?
Yes, sir.
Let's start using that Western White House.
The guys have a different attitude out there.
Totally different.
And different in Florida, too.
That's right.
Totally different.
And we get our news through from the Western White House in Florida.
than we do.
Yeah.
On many occasions.
Well, good luck to the boys today anyway.
Right, we're moving good.
We'll talk to you at 4 p.m.
The thing about it is that I was just thinking today that since about the, about eight weeks now, we've had virtually every Sunday has been the big deal has been, well, particularly since April 15th, the big deal has been Watergate.
And of course, that's all
on the press, but the really remarkable thing about the resiliency of this country is that even with this massive stuff, it has not yet destroyed us.
You know what I mean?
I mean, it does not sort of surprise you to an extent.
It must surprise the press.
They must, because when you really come down to it, there's never been such a massive attack on the presidency.
What I mean, there have been attacks, terrific attacks in other times, but they didn't have television before.
That's right.
And now they go night after night after night, and it is a son of a bitch.
Never such a sustained massive attack on any leader ever.
Yeah, and we all know, too, that even though they are now, if they shoot sometimes at Ehrlichman and Holloman and so forth, they're really shooting at the President.
That's their whole line, isn't it?
You don't agree?
You have to separate that out a little, Mr. President, before I make just a general response to that.
uh my view is that it is not a correct assumption to assume that all of the congress and all of the press have the objective of destroying the president uh i think that we would be making an incorrect assumption i think many of our critics i think the watergate thing those who are pursuing it divides itself out there are critics there are the political critics they obviously
the president, the White House.
Some of the press do, but not as many as you would think.
I think the press, which I sense, is beginning to move away from that direct attack on the president, in other words, into the lower level, into the committee operatives.
This Helms thing will kick that up a little.
That's right, maybe.
Well, if it does, that's all right.
But I think more than an attack against the president,
attack it's an impact against the presidency uh which uh which we're dealing with mixed of course with the with the uh with the political aspects of it which is okay okay