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Conversation 168-002

TapeTape 168StartFriday, June 1, 1973 at 4:33 PMEndFriday, June 1, 1973 at 7:01 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Camp David operator;  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceCamp David Study Table
AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss plans to counter Watergate-related criticism by leaking records of extensive wiretapping conducted during the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. Nixon asserts that Bobby Kennedy ordered significantly more illegal wiretaps than the Nixon administration and intends to publish the names of those surveilled to expose political hypocrisy. Additionally, the pair briefly reviews the positive international press reception regarding the President’s recent foreign policy initiatives, including the Shanghai communique and Soviet relations.

WatergateWiretappingPolitical StrategyMcGeorge BundyRobert F. KennedyLyndon B. JohnsonForeign Policy
AudioNARA Description

On June 1, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Camp David operator, and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 4:33 pm and 7:01 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 168-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 168-2

Date: June 1, 1973
Time: Unknown between 4:33 pm and 7:01 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with the Camp David operator.

     Request for telephone call
          -Henry A. Kissinger

The President talked with Kissinger between 7:01 pm and 7:05 pm.

     Watergate
          -Kissinger’s conversation with George Bundy
                -Wiretaps
                      -Robert F. (“Bobby”) Kennedy
                      -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                      -Kennedy
                            -Number of taps in 1963
                            -Names
                                  -Publication
                -Lyndon B. Johnson
                      -Secret Service order to James J. Rowley
                            -Names
                                  -Publication
                -White House response
                                             -2-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. March-2011)

                                                            Conversation No. 168-2 (cont’d)

           -Wiretaps
                -Kennedy
                      -Kissinger’s possible leak
                      -J. Edgar Hoover
                      -Number
                             -Publication
                             -Compared to Dwight D. Eisenhower, Johnson
                -Johnson
                      -Number
                             -United States Secret Service [USSS]
                             -W. Ramsey Clark
                -President
                      -Number
                      -Intelligence taps
           -Bundy

     Press relations
           -President’s trip
                  -Iceland
                  -Media reaction
           -Haig
           -Shanghai communique, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR] trip
                  -Media analysis
           -Georges J. R. Pompidou’s press conference

     Wiretaps
          -Names
              -Publication
                    -Bundy
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Dr. Kissinger, please.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Hello, Mr. President.
You told me that McGeorge Bundy had the effrontery to tell you that Bobby Kennedy in that period didn't have any taps on national security.
Have you heard the figures?
Al mentioned them to me.
Let me get away from the bullshit.
Bobby Kennedy was the greatest tapper.
300.
in 1963 almost 300 250 and the rest and i'm getting the names and i'm going to publish the names next thursday i think so let your know that they're going to get this henry right in the camp because they have done us in on this thing now the biggest rapper was bobby kennedy now johnson doesn't appear to be so big but he had the secret service to it and i've ordered rally to give me the name to the secret service tap and i'm going to put those out too
I think they want to have a gut fight.
They're going to get one, Henry.
You understand?
And they think they know how to fight.
They've never fought anybody before.
But you see, Bobby Kennedy was the biggest tapper of all.
Now, I want you—now, this is not going to come up on Monday, but leak it to somebody.
Talk to one of your liberal friends and say, we've got a blockbuster coming out.
Will you do that?
Certainly.
You can say, look, this whole business of capping, they have opened—
They have really opened it up, because Bobby Kennedy, Hoover told me this, you see, and I knew this, and I recollected, remember I told you that my recharge money was lying.
Well, Hoover told me, he said, Bobby Kennedy had me tapping everybody.
I think, incidentally, I'm on that list.
And I'm surprised.
And so, my point, I don't mind, but my point is, I don't want this goddamn hypocrisy.
Well, if we can get the names, Mr. President, we ought to put some of them out.
Some?
All of them.
Everybody's going to go out.
I'm going to put the whole damn list out.
Well, then they'll force us to put all of ours out.
I don't give a damn about that.
I'll put ours out.
But we're going to force them right now.
They're going to play this game hard to get out anyway, Henry.
Do you understand?
But what we should do in any event is to get this list out.
That's what I mean, yeah.
Well, we're going to do that.
But just let one of your liberal friends know that...
There's a real blockbuster coming.
The most topping was done in the Kennedy administration.
This study has shown.
And the facts are going to come out.
See, Eisenhower's figures averaged about 110.
Right.
Bobby Kennedy's averaged 240.
Good God.
You see what I mean?
Johnson was very high his first year in 1967.
And then in 68 it dropped to 80.
But that year, everybody knows, he had the Secret Service do the tapping, because Ramsey Clark was Attorney General.
Exactly.
Get the point?
Of course.
Our figure was 120.
110.
Very small.
And most of those were intelligent.
I know that, right.
But I just want for your reassurance, but don't let McGeorge Monday give you any of that bullshit anymore, because it just gets beyond belief.
Beyond belief.
Double standard.
But anyway, on the positive side, our trip, I think, was...
I think it's going very well, Mr. President.
Everyone now is riding.
It's always...
It takes a little time.
The thing I told Al, though, is that they've pissed on everything we've done.
The Shanghai communique, the Russian summit, everything else.
We could do something that was perfect, and they're going to piss on it.
So let's not worry about that.
They didn't really piss on it.
They are now saying that the door is unlocked.
The Combi Duplex conference today held.
Yeah.
And they're riding it quite straight.
Yeah.
All right.
But remember, on this trap business, it's going to catch some of your friends, incidentally.
Because I know some of the names.
I wouldn't be a bit unhappy.
I know some of the names.
And boy, if they want a brutal fight, they're going to get one.
And they're going to get it goddamn soon.
They've been asking for it.
That's right.
A long time.
Okay.
Right.
Make sure McGeorge Monday knows that this is coming out.
That'd be a very good one.
Right.
Okay.
Bye.
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