← 168-008168-010 →

Conversation 168-009

TapeTape 168StartSaturday, June 2, 1973 at 10:19 AMEndSaturday, June 2, 1973 at 10:29 AMParticipantsCamp David operator;  Nixon, Richard M. (President);  Ziegler, Ronald L.Recording deviceCamp David Study Table
AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discussed the positive media reception of Nixon’s recent trip to France and the administration's strategy regarding ongoing Watergate coverage. The conversation focused on a plan to counter political pressure by releasing data on FBI wiretaps authorized during the Kennedy and Johnson administrations to create a defensive narrative. Nixon emphasized the importance of aggressive tactics, instructing Ziegler to coordinate with Alexander Haig to formalize the release of this information and identify the names of any targeted newsmen.

WatergateMedia RelationsFBI WiretapsPolitical StrategyNational Security
AudioNARA Description

On June 2, 1973, Camp David operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:19 am and 10:29 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 168-009 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 168-9

Date: June 2, 1973
Time: Unknown between 10:19 am and 10:29 am
Location: Camp David Study Table
                                             -7-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. March-2011)

                                                              Conversation No. 168-9 (cont’d)

The Camp David operator talked with the President at 10:19 am.

     Telephone call from Ronald L. Ziegler

Ziegler talked with the President between 10:19 am and 10:29 am.

     Ziegler’s schedule

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

     President’s schedule
           -Sleep
                 -Travel
                      -Time change

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

     Press relations
           -President’s trip to France [Iceland]
           -Henry A. Kissinger
           -William R. Rogers
           -Washington Post picture of President and Georges J. R. Pompidou
                  -Coverage of trip
           -Television [TV] coverage
           -Wire services
           -Summit
                  -US, Great Britain, and France
           -Kissinger, Rogers
           -Greece
                  -Abolition of monarchy
                  -Republic
           -Unemployment statistics
                  -Release

     National economy
          -Strength
                                        -8-

             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. March-2011)

                                                         Conversation No. 168-9 (cont’d)

     -Unemployment
     -Inflation
     -Confidence of American people

Press relations
      -Soviet Jews
      -Leonid I. Brezhnev statement in New York Times

Watergate
     -Archibald Cox and Samuel Dash
           -Ervin Committee hearings
                 -Coverage
     -Ervin Committee hearings
     -Wiretaps
           -Ziegler’s conversation with J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr. and Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
           -Possible release of information
                 -William D. Ruckelshaus
                 -Ziegler’s conversation with Haig
           -Newsmen
     -Washington Star story, June 1, 1973
           -Scripps-Howard
     -Wiretaps
           -Newsmen
           -National security
           -Robert F. (“Bobby”) Kennedy
                 -Number
                       -President’s previous press conference
                             -J. Edgar Hoover
           -Possible release of information
                 -Format
                       -Ruckelshaus, Frank Cormier
                       -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
                       -Wire services
                 -Timing
                 -Hugh Scott’s possible statement
                       -Kennedy’s possible taps of newsmen
           -Names
           -Lyndon B. Johnson
                 -Secret Service
                 -W. Ramsey Clark
                                             -9-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. March-2011)

                                                             Conversation No. 168-9 (cont’d)

                 -Strategy
                 -Daniel Ellsberg - Morton H. Halperin tap
                       -Possible release
                              -Considerations
                              -Scott
                 -Ziegler’s forthcoming conversation with Haig
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Mr. President, we have Mr. Ziegler now.
Yeah.
Go ahead, please.
Hello.
Good morning.
Hope you got a little sleep.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
Got in.
I slept in this morning myself.
Good.
I'm glad to hear that.
You know, that going back and forth really shakes you up.
Sure does.
Yeah.
And particularly with the time and so forth.
Well, about everything, Ron, some of the...
Good play off the French trip, finally.
They got Henry's stuff and Roger's play all right.
Right.
Big picture on the front page of the Post.
Which is good to see.
That's the first time we've been to the front page of the Post for years.
You're inside of the Post, shaking hands and greeting the crowd at the airport.
It had a good flavor to it, huh?
Yes, sir.
Good, good.
And the TV reports again last night showed you what the...
groups of people and so forth.
They point out, you know, that the session went as expected and the wires moved that.
Good.
And then picked up on the little, you know, spurt about the Super Summit coverage, but I'm glad of that.
I'd like to have something like that going.
Oh, I'm all for that.
I mean, yeah.
Doubt about that.
It, you know, points to achievement later on.
It is at the U.S., Britain, and France, you know.
Right.
Yeah.
Sure.
I told them I was for that.
played out well and so did Secretary Rogers.
Then, of course, the Greek move is getting heavy play.
Why?
They abolished the monarchy in Greece, set up a republic.
Oh, I see.
Massive play.
No problem of ours, but it diverts attention.
That's right.
None whatsoever, so that's leading the paper.
Unemployment held at 5%.
Is that right?
Yes, sir.
That's getting good play.
It's still at 5.
I think it's lower than that, but nevertheless.
Well, the figures that were released, the unemployment rate remained at 5%, holding steady.
That's not bad.
That's excellent.
Excellent, sure.
No, no, it's the only problem we have there, Ron, is that the
the economy is so damn strong at the present time.
If it gets any stronger and unemployment goes down, we'll have inflation.
We're better between the devil and the deep blue sea, but that's all right.
That's that number we can live with.
Still, from the standpoint of a conference of people, they ought to be all right.
Right.
There's a story on the front page of the New York Times relating the assurances from Brezhnev on the Jewish question.
Oh, yes.
What's the Watergate news today?
Anything new there?
Nothing really new on the Watergate.
They didn't have any hearings.
No, it's Cox dabbling around with Nash.
As the TV said last night on the story, after much denying reaction and fulminating and marching throughout the day, the upshot is that Cox did raise the possibility of calling off the airman hearings and talks with Dash.
So, you know, there's a little, it says ABC led with a tug of war between Cox and Dash.
So that type of thing is playing on a watergate, that's about all.
They start with their hearings again next week.
Yes, sir.
They start on...
Have you been able to talk to Fred Bazzard or Al yet about the figures we've got?
Yes, sir.
I talked to Al last night.
I'll tell you.
Those are sensational, you know.
I did talk to him.
The thing that I was wondering about, Ron, was how to play it.
And I...
The idea of planting a question and then coming up with it the next day is just too phony, you know?
Yeah, I think so.
We've talked to Al about that from the day we got it.
And also, another thing is that maybe it shouldn't come from the White House.
Maybe it should come from Microsoft.
Maybe so.
I don't know.
I don't know.
We're going to meet on that a little bit today and kick that around.
Right.
As I told Al, let's find out about the news then.
Yeah.
whether there were any.
Yes, sir.
And I'm sure there had to be.
I asked for the names, you know.
So I've ordered that the names be given to me.
Right.
Absolutely.
So we'll find out.
Mr. President, we got that other thing in.
It ran yesterday in the Star.
Which one?
The point about under a lot of pressure to release the files.
Yeah.
Oh, did it?
Yes, sir.
The Star picked it up from Scripps Howard.
And it was just in.
It wasn't even in a column.
It was in a news story.
Right.
Which...
is there, second page, you know, it's sort of high in the story, which is just the way that should be.
You know, I know, I guess you know it.
Sure, Ron, it's pure gamesmanship, but let's just hang it out there.
Well, that's hung out.
You know, and then they'll ask you about it sometime.
I'd say, what was that?
Thursday.
Yeah.
We'll make it, we think we'll put it out Thursday.
You know what I mean?
Right, I won't do that publicly, but I'll, you know, that's right.
But I just wanted you to know that is...
But on this story here, what is your view, just offhand at this time, as to how to handle it?
Well, it doesn't really make a lot of difference for the news.
Typically, you're going to go in the news, and there will be some, I'm sure.
But nevertheless, the point is that this is the question of the national security debt.
And the greatest number, if ever, twice as many in the Bobby Kennedy period as in any period of any attorney general.
And God, it's a hell of a story, you know?
It backs up in spades what I said in my press conference.
In fact, I didn't have it as bad as it was.
See, now if they ever ask the press the discrepancy between what I said in that press conference and these, you can point out that that number was received from Mr. Hoover and related to the number of taps at any one time.
See, because that's a much lower number, magnitude.
This one is the total number you see there.
Right.
But in any event, what's your feeling about how to get it out?
My feeling is that I agree.
It probably would be too obvious to get a question planted and then to respond from the White House.
Yeah.
Ruckelshaus is a possibility.
Or...
I think probably to get it to proper play, it's got to come from the White House.
Or does that look... What would be our justification for putting it out?
Well, I could—there are several ways to do it.
I could be asked about it, but not in a briefing, but have people ask me about it.
You could just say because of inquiries that have been—a number of inquiries have been received as to—I don't think you have to be asked about it because you could say a number of inquiries have been received.
The following information has been obtained from the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
You put the statement out.
Or we could let it move on, give it to one of the wires the night before, then I'd be sure to be asked about it the next day.
And I said, yes, we do have these materials and, you know, the issue of statement.
Yeah.
Okay.
There are several options.
Well, the point is, when you want it out to a day, I don't think you should try to get it out this weekend.
No, I don't think we need it this weekend.
I think the first of the week is better.
Let's hang it out there.
Then there should be a follow-up by somebody on our side, the Republican side, and the Congress asking for, like a Scott asking for an investigation of the Tapps and the Kennedy period.
I mean, were there any newsmen?
We'll have to see.
We'll have to see who the names are.
My guess is there's some political people on there, too.
I'm sure there will be.
If we can ever get them.
I've also ordered that the Secret Service caps be—the number be given to me, because that's what—that's why Johnson's number drops down, because he and the Secret Service, Ramsey Clark wouldn't use the other.
But all in all, this is part of what you term around the political gunfight.
You see, if you just can't stay in that shell hole, let them shoot at you.
That's exactly right.
And now and then, on a thing like this, you crack them right back.
Sure.
And they want to—they want to get into this thing.
going to have a fight in their hands.
The other thing, too, is that the more I think of it, I've been back and forth on this, but I do think we've got to get out at least the rough content of that Ellsberg hopper and tap.
You know what it is, don't you?
Have you got any ideas on that, as to how that can be done?
Or is it just too hard to handle?
That's it.
No, it's not too hard to handle.
Too dirty?
Excuse me?
Too rough.
If it's handled right, it's not.
If a shrewd newspaper man, good God, they must know that it hurts their kid, because you haven't had any inquiries on it, have you?
On the top itself, yeah.
No newsmen ask, what was it?
No.
We haven't had any drugs in the briefing.
Scott, I think, might be our best resource for that, but we've got to move it fairly slowly.
Yeah.
Well, okay.
The main point is to get this story.
You've got a good set of facts.
Let's not blow it.
No, I agree.
Let's get it out, because Al will be looking for the names of newsmen.
Right.
Okay.
I'm going to talk to Al here very shortly.
Bye.
← 168-008168-010 →