Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Iceland Trip and Watergate

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Hello, Mr. President.

Well, Al Haig and Ron Ziegler, with whom I just talked, think that the play came out extremely well.

And it's getting better.

Give me your appraisal, because they were very pleased.

I didn't talk much to Al, but I did not.

My appraisal is they had started pissing on us.

That's before we went.

Before we went.

Then, of course, they were in the dilemma that they couldn't turn around right away.

Every day, though, they've been improving their storage.

Is that right?

Oh, yeah.

Uh-huh.

And it's come out very well.

Yeah.

And in fact...

In fact, I suppose, Henry, the fact that they had pissed on it made it better than it was.

Otherwise, they would expect to go on what's new.

And now that I can start backgrounding, I can explain to them, Mr. President.

They say there was no substantive achievement.

We didn't want a substantive achievement because then we would have had to settle the monetary issue.

That's right.

What we wanted was a procedure by which we could go ahead on the Year of Europe.

That's right.

In forums in which we would have friends with us.

Yeah, there was that when I was trying to think how

That clever thing that Pompidou said, he says, consumption is, of course, much more pleasant than delivery.

Yeah, but Pompidou also said things will now happen inevitably in the future.

Sure.

In the press.

It's come out very well, Mr. President.

Much better than we had any reason to expect, Henry.

Much better than we had any reason to expect.

And I'm beginning to think this whole affair is turning.

All my mail now, Mr. President, is supportive.

Your mail.

What do you mean here?

From people with... My personal mail now says the president...

I mean, a lot of favorable letters about you.

A lot of favorable letters saying you know who's brought these.

They're beginning to see the big picture, you mean.

That's what I mean.

Yeah.

You know, one thing that Tom Hagen and I understand Gurney have pressed, which would be good, is that

say why don't we call the big five up there mitchell and alderman ehrlichman and colson and dean of course they can't get dean to leave and then decide so that we can it's the main thing people understand whether the president was involved well god damn it the president was not involved in this hanky-panky at all as you well know but what they're trying to create that impression though henry by just dragging these damn hearings go on and on and on and on and on but you agree but i think mr president people are now getting bored

And they can't tell apart anymore who did what to whom.

And I think unless there's some new, unbelievable revelation, I mean, I don't mean little crappy stuff, I think we're over the worst of it.

Because, and I think this Iceland deal, Peter Lizzago, for example, has a column today in which he says there's a new mood.

And it speaks about our briefings.

It isn't yet a favorable color, but it's a substantive color.

Well, that's good.

Just to sort of get them turned a bit.

I think that meeting in Reykjavik, strange as it may be, was almost a turning point.

Could be, Henry.

Well, first of all, it will look even better at the end of the year.

Yeah.

Because it will be seen to have been what made the year of Europe.

That's right.

It could have failed.

Oh, don't we know.

That first day, it sure could have.

But you got exactly what you set out to get.

Right, right, right.

And...

We left the monetary thing hanging there, which is what we wanted.

Which is what really we wanted.

That's right.

I talked to Lord Cromer this morning and he thinks it was a masterpiece.

Did he really?

Yeah.

Good, good, good.

And the trend is coming over Monday.

I'm going to spend Monday morning with him.

Right, right.

Well, we've set up certainly the, we've set up the play now where we can

You can follow up on dealing with these various people.

Well, I'm having Bertrand on Monday, I'm seeing Joubert Thursday, and I'm seeing Barr the following Monday.

After that, that thing will be humming.

Right.

And let's get their ideas, too.

Oh, yeah.

But you see, this was the toughest one of these meetings.

At every other meeting, we will be in a majority.

Because the British and Germans will support us.

Yeah.

And on this idea of a European summit, if we really want it, we can get it, because Pompidou can't afford to stay away.

No, that's true.

That's why we don't have to force it now.

Absolutely.

Let's not have the whole debate about whether there's going to be a summit.

After all, I am going to Europe.

I'm going to see these people, and that's that.

That's right.

That's about the same thing.

Whether we have the summit depends on other things.

But it was a great success.

Right.

Well, incidentally, on this other thing that's

these things are going to go on and on.

It's obvious what's happened now, Henry, is that it's become basically a very partisan political gut fight.

That's all.

You know what I mean?

These guys know that the president is not involved in this, so they're just trying their damnedest to drag it on and create doubts, you see?

And we're just going to

I wouldn't worry about anything coming out.

Stuff will come out, but it's not going to mean all that much.

We had a shocking four weeks, but I think we're over the worst of it.

I mean, psychologically, in terms of... Yeah, from the 30th.

Basically, from the 30th when I had to make the Haldeman-Ehrlichman move.

Throughout the month of April, of May, it was a son of a bitch.

You see, next week now, we're going to get that Vietnam agreement.

No one can fit on that.

That's going to be Thursday.

Thursday.

Is that definitely set?

Well, I'll know a little more by Tuesday.

You know, you're going to brief on that in Paris.

I wondered if you could just send me the material so that I could get a few of the leaders in.

Oh, yeah.

And brief them at the same time.

I think you should.

See what I mean?

I'll just... No, no, I planned it on that basis.

And that way we can let them... What I thought we should do, Mr. President, is to...

If this works according to schedule, then maybe Wednesday night...

Wednesday afternoon at 4, Ziegler could announce at the briefing that we have reached an agreement which will be published the next day.

Right.

Then you could brief, then you could have the leaders in at 8.30 and go over the agreement with them.

Right.

But you'd get two bounces, you'd get three.

Great, great.

And I could say, brief the press there at 1, which would be about the same time as you.

That's right, that's right.

Actually, whether at the same time or not, when I get them in, that'll do the trick.

It's just good for me to see them on another subject, you see.

Oh, I have definitely counted on it working that way, that the announcement of the agreement will be made at the White House.

Good.

Without substance.

I mean, the way we did it when we announced the agreement.

Right.

We just have four or five lines.

Right.

That's great.

Then we publish the text the next day.

Right.

And you simultaneously have the leaders in.

That's right.

And we will write the talking points for you.

Right.

And you know, they can be here.

You just write out the points and I'll just sit there and guess a little with them.

That's right.

They'll all feel... You ought to stay away from Cambodia and so forth.

Easily be happy.

As well as I can, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, we can...

Give them a little hope on that.

That's the best way.

You'll see that on Wednesday.

Right, right.

Well, anyway, did you get any sleep last night?

Oh, that was a, you know, that kind of a trip where you only spend the day as really a rocker, isn't it?

Knocks you right off.

But you feel good this morning?

I feel good.

I went to bed, Charlie, after I talked to you.

Oh, did you?

Yeah.

No, I saw a movie.

I saw a movie, and then that did it.

Yeah, I slept pretty well.

Pretty well.

Oh, sure, I feel fine.

But just figure that the main thing is, Henry, is looking back over these, it isn't just four weeks.

We've been at this for four years, four and a half years.

You want to remember just the intensity of the battle, but it's virtually the same enemies, isn't it?

The same enemies are now trying to do legally what they tried with riots earlier.

Riots earlier and in an election, too.

That's right.

See, they failed with their riots.

They failed in the election.

Now they're trying to do it with a, you know, anyway.

But it's the bad guys against the good guys.

And really, I would think that Henry, people like the Lissigars and the responsible people, the Stuart Alsops and the rest, would finally begin to see what we see that good God, even a stinking meeting in Iceland.

is ten times as important as this crappy Watergate crap.

But, Mr. President, in all the reporting nowadays, the tone of respect—you remember they pissed on the Shanghai communique first.

Oh, yes.

And it didn't make any difference.

Yeah, yeah.

And they didn't really piss on this.

Every day the news play has been getting better, which is really better for us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Friday was better than Thursday.

Today is better than yesterday.

Right.

And very respectful.

You've got a background about it, too, aren't you?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Because you can tell them, you know, the importance of it.

I've got a background, some of the opinion leaders.

That's right.

And, uh, okay.

You know, we had mentioned that we were going to brief the Congress on this meeting.

I don't think probably it's worth it.

I thought it set up for Tuesday morning at 830.

Oh, here?

When do you leave, though?

About 10, 11.

I can stay through the meeting.

You think it's working?

Yeah.

Okay.

I think you ought to be the working president.

Yeah, yeah.

And we can make enough out of this to make it worthwhile.

And I can explain to them a little bit what our strategy was.

Right.

All right.

That's what we'll do.

We'll be set for it, Henry.

Right.

Bye.

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Iceland Trip and Watergate

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 2, 1973

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