Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 168 › Conversation 168-022

Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate and Wiretapping

Saturday, June 2, 1973 · 1:58 PM–2:05 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation168-022 on Tape 168StartSaturday, June 2, 1973 at 1:58 PMEndSaturday, June 2, 1973 at 2:05 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 168-022 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Ronald Ziegler discuss a communications strategy to counter negative press coverage and leaks regarding the Watergate scandal. They evaluate the timing for releasing information about past wiretap records, hoping to identify potentially damaging precedents involving Robert F. Kennedy to deflect from current criticisms. The President affirms a 'moderate profile' strategy, agreeing with Ziegler that they should stop responding to individual leaks and instead rely on previous official denials, while also coordinating with congressional allies like Edward Gurney to challenge the Ervin Committee's proceedings.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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We talked about the matter of these wiretap records, and all of us feel that it's such
We should get all of the information to know what's there before we rush out with the figures.
I agree.
Because we can, you know, whether or not it goes Sunday or Monday, it really doesn't mean as much if we should be stronger in our strategy.
As a matter of fact, if you find that you haven't got newsmen, you'll still put the figures out.
Oh, yes, sir.
But I mean...
If you find that you've got maybe a newsman or a senator... Then we have a lot more...
to work with, and Scott does, and others who would use on a follow-up, just knowing what the information is.
Al's really shaken them up, which I'm sure he'll tell you this afternoon, and we're getting these other details that we need just in our own minds, really.
In other words, to know what the names are.
That's correct.
In other words, if Bobby Kennedy was topping senators and newsmen and political foes, we don't have to give the names, but we can sure make a hell of a point, you see.
Yeah, if he did.
If not.
That's right.
But if he did, we should know that before we move the story.
Good point.
Good point.
We'll find a way to move it if it's good enough.
Good.
Well, we'll move it in any event.
Yeah, yeah.
If it's a good story, even with what we have now.
Yeah, that's right.
But if we can get more, then we have even more to work with.
Good.
So we're talking about the first of the week sometime, but it's more or less of getting the other data in before we determine precisely what our strategy would be.
That's right.
That's right.
Good.
Good.
Everybody, how's the... Did you get some other things decided?
You...
where you've been most of the time on this.
No, we talked some about the whole, you know, schedule for next week, which I was prepared to go over with you.
It looks pretty good with the, you know, possibly some things on the economy reorganization, the Kissinger activity, the Friday activity, and so forth.
Friday is, are they, no, planning to go to Florida?
Yes, sir.
But Al has all that to go over with you, and we can simply kick that around.
Some reorganization matters, and Al will be prepared to discuss all of that with you.
It looks pretty, it looks excellent to me.
Fine, fine, fine.
And it's consistent with our strategy.
Yeah, I think it is.
We just continue with our relatively, you know, not necessarily low, but moderate profile.
just doing the job, and if they want to report it, fine.
If they don't, that's another thing.
Well, they'll report it.
They'll report some of it.
Sure, they will.
And they can all wallow in the other thing, too, which is all right.
I mean, we have no control over that.
Right.
Well, we have some control over it, on how we conduct ourselves, how we respond.
That's right, and we shouldn't be nitpicked to death by all these sore stories.
Yeah, yeah.
Got any thoughts on how to handle them?
I just don't know yet.
Well, yes, I think, you mean the various source stories?
Yeah.
I think basically we let them run their own tide for a while and simply rest our position.
And we talked about this in the meeting.
rest our position on what we've previously said.
Our paper.
The May 22nd paper and previous denials on the part of the White House.
Sure.
And not simply keep repeating and repeating and repeating denials when the story comes from here or the story comes from there.
That's right.
Just say this has all been answered.
That's right.
And we're not going to be driven to constant responses to stories.
On specifics.
Either leaks from the prosecutors or leaks from the investigators or self-serving those who leak stories for their own self-interest.
We stand on the record on the statements we've issued, and what kind of stuff do you have to combat today, for example?
Any new ones?
Well, nothing in any specific terms at this point.
We were just talking about the overall strategy.
Yeah, sure.
That's right.
That's right.
But this whole business of theirs, you know, pretty shocking, isn't it?
The leaking out of the grand jury, leaking out of the committee, and then, of course, the various individuals...
you know, doing something and the papers drawing from stuff and innuendo and so forth and so on.
But again, again, I can't emphasize too strong.
I hope we can get a few surrogates to hit some of that.
Great.
We talked about that.
And because they should, shouldn't they?
Yes, sir.
Get a little of that on the way.
That'll help us too.
And we're getting that.
Scott's been all right, I know.
Scott Agnew's been out.
He already said some good things.
I think Gurney might in the long run be our hold card here, really.
He's kind of a gutsy guy.
And Len told me this afternoon that we have indications that there's a division beginning to set in on the committee itself between Dash and Thompson and, you know, different thoughts
by guys like Gurney and Baker.
I don't know how much credence we can put in that at this point.
But, incidentally, on the press conference thing, I don't think this is the week to do it.
Absolutely not.
Don't you agree?
Totally.
I mean, we just got to play that one out.
Everyone agrees.
Play it out, just play the string out a bit more.
And because this week would simply be a
Oh, crappy stuff.
Don't you agree?
Yes, sir.
Everyone agrees.
We talked about that, too.
We have to realize, too, that the press conference will be useful to us sometime.
But when it isn't useful, just to come to it and let them squeal about it.
That's all.
We'll do it on the homely side.
It's the right time.
I agree.
We may have to wait until after Bresnik to do it.
Who knows?
Well, certainly.
I think we assess it week by week.
Every week is not the week.
Right.
Okay.
Okay, sir.

NARA Description

On June 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at Camp David from 1:58 pm to 2:05 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 168-022 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 168-22

Date: June 2, 1973
Time: 1:58 pm - 2:05 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.

     Watergate
          -Wiretaps
                -Ziegler’s meeting with Alexander M. Haig
                -Release of information
                      -Hugh Scott
          -Haig’s efforts
          -Robert F. (“Bobby”) Kennedy
          -Release of information
                -Timing

     Ronald Ziegler’s meeting with Haig
          -President’s schedule
                -Henry A. Kissinger, economy, reorganization
                -Florida
                      -[President’s address at Florida Technical University]
          -Reorganization
                -Haig’s meeting with President

     President’s activities
           -White House strategy
                 -“Moderate profile”
           -Press coverage

     Watergate
          -Press coverage
          -White House response
          -News lead, June 2, 1973
          -Leaks
                -Prosecutors, investigators
                -Grand Jury
                                               -22-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                            Conversation No. 168-22 (cont’d)

                 -Ervin Committee
                 -Response
                 -Scott
                 -Spiro T. Agnew
                 -Edward J. Gurney
           -Ervin Committee
                 -Ziegler’s conversation with Leonard Garment, June 2, 1973
                        -Samuel Dash, Fred Thompson
                             -Gurney, Howard H. Baker, Jr.
           -President’s possible press conference
                 -Timing
                        -Leonid I. Brezhnev visit

Also recorded on June 2, 1973

  • 168-014 11:24 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:24 am and 11:38 am.
  • 168-015 11:38 AM · 40 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:38 am to 11:39 am.
  • 168-016 11:39 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:39 am and 11:56 am.
  • 168-017 11:56 AM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:56 am and 12:05 pm.
  • 168-018 12:12 PM · 21 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 12:12 pm.
  • 168-019 12:12 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:12 pm and 12:29 pm.
  • 168-020 12:29 PM · 16 sec — Camp David operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at Camp David at 12:29 pm.
  • 168-021 12:29 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:29 pm and 1:58 pm.

All 17 conversations from June 2, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 168-022, June 2, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/168-022 (accessed October 12, 2026).