Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 169 › Conversation 169-002

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Leonid Brezhnev and Watergate scandal

Tuesday, June 19, 1973 · 9:58 PM–10:07 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation169-002 on Tape 169StartTuesday, June 19, 1973 at 9:58 PMEndTuesday, June 19, 1973 at 10:07 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 169-002 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger spoke from Camp David to coordinate the agenda for upcoming meetings with Soviet General Secretary Leonid Brezhnev. The two assessed Brezhnev’s strong personal rapport with Nixon and emphasized that their ongoing diplomatic efforts were of greater national significance than the Watergate scandal. Nixon expressed frustration over the distraction caused by domestic political controversies, specifically disparaging John Dean, while affirming the strategic necessity of maintaining his presidency to continue essential international negotiations with the USSR and China.

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This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Go ahead, Mr. President.
Hello, Mr. President.
Hi, Henry.
Did you want this evening a memo on the items that need solutions, or should I have it in the morning for you?
Have it in the morning.
There's no...
I took them over here, and...
I picked him out and got a little shot of Russian vodka and we looked at the hills.
He's really unbelievable.
I'm not easily taken in, I don't think I am, but I really think this guy does believe in his friendship.
What do you think?
Well, you know, he's emotional.
He's a very emotional man.
But he told me about the time that he talked with you about, you know, they're running for a third term.
And he says, look, he says, I'm a friend.
He says, we must understand this.
And I'm a friend in bad times and good times.
And we've got a great opportunity.
And we haven't many years left, you know.
He was really, you know, and I'm not taking in about it.
I don't know.
I was very, I must say that the first time I thought maybe there was something to all this business.
No, no.
You told me that, huh?
There's no doubt that he has tremendous admiration for you.
Oh, he does have that.
That is right.
No question, Mr. President.
But, you know, we had a very good talk.
He didn't cover anything in substance, but he was just so emotionally unbelievable.
And that, of course, is another aspect of the situation that there you have both Mao and Brezhnev priding themselves.
That was his point.
And he said, look, this is a personal relationship.
We have different systems, but by a color, we can work on everything.
And he really believes that.
And I think he does believe, because I think that he may have in the back of his mind that he may jump the Chinese.
No, he told me as we just got in, he said, look, I mean, he said, he said, look, we have no...
aggressive intentions against anybody else.
He says, I hope you know that.
I said, yes, I know that.
So, you know, he at least was making a record.
We won't tell that to the Chinese.
Oh, God, no.
He said he was going to kill them.
I told them a horrifying story.
Well, you know, I'm glad we took the boat, aren't you?
Oh, yes.
And it created a nice atmosphere.
Yeah, they all liked it, aren't you?
Oh, yes.
And I thought it created a very good atmosphere.
Well, I must say, though, that he is really...
He loves Camp David.
He likes moving around here and the rest.
And so we'll have meetings tomorrow and... Do you have any special preference on how to organize that?
I just don't know.
I think, actually, that...
He has talked so much about a meeting alone that we ought to have a little of that.
with him and just this Philip Victor, then you, but it's very important that you, that Brennan and he and I have a meeting where we nail down those damn dates.
I mean, I don't think that should be done by me alone with him, because he may forget it.
No, and also, Mr. President, the trouble is, any commitments then...
You want to have private chats here.
You want to have them on the airplane.
He wanted to have him in Camp David, I mean, at the same committee.
So, you know, I don't mean by that that we do just gas around, which is all it would be.
Do you mean four or two of you?
I think four most of the time, but two part of the time.
He's got to have times when, you know, where he emotionally tells me things.
That's what it really is.
No question about this.
I agree.
I agree.
All right.
Right.
So let's say the first thing in the morning, he and I have a talk, and you join us about 11, how's that?
Okay, good.
Does that sound all right?
That sounds fine.
And then let's get down to some nuts and bolts at 11 and say, let's decide this, this, and this.
Right.
And we'll prepare the way.
Right.
But actually, I really think that this has gone very well.
So over to you.
Okay.
You know, I thought tonight as I rode up the hill with him and he was talking about this and the rest, my God, Henry, these assholes that are talking about wallowing in Watergate don't know what's going on in the world.
That's what I kept talking about.
I hope you can be run for re-election.
I mean, I'm saying, God, you're going to be here three years.
We're going to work together.
And he means that.
And what does he tell that these people think they're doing to us?
Well, indeed, people who talk about your resignation.
Even a competent successor, which you don't have.
Magnum?
Good God.
Even a competent successor would take two or three years.
It took us three years.
To get his feet on the ground.
Sure.
Well, anyway, we prepared the way.
I mean, you know we worked on this thing, and you got the damn thing prepared.
You underpin it.
And it was a very effective job, but... Well, Mr. President, your decisions made it possible.
Well, that's fine, but nevertheless, the point that I make about all this is that... My God, I realized how our gate paled into insignificance.
It's nothing to him.
It doesn't mean a goddamn thing.
No, he is, he is utterly, utterly, he didn't raise it, of course, but the point is, he was only talking about the future and how we work together.
Good God, these clowns are talking about this miserable little hanky-panky, and they know it, Henry, that's what burns my tail.
They know it, and they listen to it.
week, I think the combination of what you are doing this week, in which every American can see every day you're working for peace.
And then it turns out that Dean is a thief on top of everything else.
He is a damn thief.
That's right.
I don't know whether they can...
I don't know whether...
He's got a clever little story to get up that he put an IOU in the safe and all that crap.
Mr. President, if money is entrusted to you, any bank teller could get away scot-free by saying he's put an IOU right into his still.
That's right.
No, he's a thief.
That'll hurt him.
That's what Bizarre thinks I know, doesn't he?
Well, Bizarre calls me in peace.
He thinks he's big by next week.
He'll be totally discredited.
Well, he'll give us a rough time, but we'll survive it.
But the main thing is, we've got to survive it.
Good God, who the hell else can talk to the rest of us?
I'm not cocky, but good God.
Oh, I looked at that nice little huber company today.
The rest of us would make mincemeat of him.
Well, not a chance, Mr. President.
Not to speak of the fact that Hubert Humphrey would never have set it up.
Where did you make your turning point by fading them down in three and four egos?
Right.
And in Jordan, and then in May 8th.
And then in May 8th.
That's where Hubert set it up.
And from there on, he has enormous respect.
That night at the Dasha set it up, Henry.
That night at the Dasha.
You notice how he mentioned that that night?
And he says, you remember, I didn't raise the point.
You remember he said that?
There it is.
Very well, very well.
And that's why they now think back to May 72 as a big turning point.
That's right.
Because you stood up to him in all these meetings.
And it'd be inconceivable that any person in our prospect could even dream of him.
I can now see why you said that there wasn't a chance he'd cancel a sum of hell.
He's got too much writing on him.
Not a chance.
His whole idea of coexistence.
Well, and his whole policy must be better.
He would know, he's better on us, that if he doesn't, if this summit doesn't take place,
Uh, he may not get another one for two years.
That's right.
And that's why he went through with last year's summer.
And that's why he wants another one next year.
That's right.
Right.
Of course, what he's going to try to do is drive the Chinese crazy.
Well, we'll do a little of that, too.
Okay.
All right.
Tomorrow.
Huh?
I'm pretty sure we'll get Joe and Lai over here within the next second.
That would be great.
And we'll have him over.
Then we'll go to Russia again and go to China again.
That's okay.
That's what we do next year.
That's right.
Okay, Henry.
No hurry.
Tomorrow about 10 o'clock.
I don't need time.
Right.
10 or 11.
Perhaps 10, 30, 11.
But I'll bring the paper over at 9, 30, 10 o'clock.
Don't, don't, don't.
Get a little rest, okay?
Right.
All right.
Bye.

NARA Description

On June 19, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 9:58 pm to 10:07 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 169-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 169-2

Date: June 19, 1973
Time: 9:58 pm - 10:07 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Memorandum
         -Policy recommendations
         -Delivery

     Leonid I. Brezhnev
          -Meeting with President
                 -Vodka
                 -Friendship
                 -Conversations with Kissinger
          -Relationship with President
                 -Friendship
                       -Admiration
                 -Mao Tse-tung
                 -Negotiations
          -Meeting with President
                                        -2-

             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                      Conversation No. 169-2 (cont’d)

          -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]-People’s Republic of China
           [PRC] relations
          -Kissinger’s conversation with PRC
     -Sequoia
          -Meeting with USSR officials
                -Atmosphere
     -Schedule
          -Camp David meetings, June 29, 1973
                -Organization
                      -Private meetings between Brezhnev and President
                -Viktor M. Sukhodrev and President
                -President, Anatoliy F. Dobrynin, Kissinger
                -William P. Rogers, Andrei A. Gromyko
                -Dobrynin and Kissinger
          -Meetings with President
                -Washington, Camp David, San Clemente
          -Meetings, June 20, 1973
     -Conversation with President

Watergate
     -Brezhnev’s wish for President’s reelection
     -President’s possible resignation
           -Spiro T. Agnew
                 -Kissinger’s assessment

Brezhnev’s visit
     -Preparation
           -Kissinger and Dobrynin
     -Watergate
           -Insignificance compared to diplomacy

Watergate
     -President’s opponents
     -Brezhnev’s visits
           -Negotiations
                 -Peace
     -John W. Dean, III
                                             -3-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                               Conversation No. 169-2 (cont’d)

                 -Handling of funds
                      -J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.’s conversation with Kissinger

     Brezhnev’s visit
          -Relations with President
          -Hubert H. Humphrey
                -Ability to handle negotiations
                -Arrangement of summit meetings
          -President’s previous actions
                -Cien Fuegos
                -Jordan
                -May 8, 1972 speech
                -President’s meeting with Brezhnev at Dacha in 1972
                      -President’s actions
          -Value to Brezhnev
                -Coexistence with West
                -Summit schedule
                -Relations with PRC

     Chou En-lai
          -Visit to US

     President’s schedule
           -USSR, PRC

     Brezhnev’s visit
          -Schedule

Also recorded on June 20, 1973

  • 169-001 9:33 PM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:33 pm and 9:58 pm.
  • 169-003 10:07 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:07 pm and 11:05 pm.
  • 169-004 10:07 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:07 pm and 11:05 pm.
  • 169-005 11:05 PM · 4 min — Camp David operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Julie Nixon Eisenhower talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:05 pm to 11:10 pm.
  • 169-006 11:10 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:10 pm and 11:16 pm.
  • 169-007 11:10 PM · 13 sec — Camp David operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:10 pm and 11:16 pm.
  • 169-008 11:10 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:10 pm and 11:16 pm.
  • 169-009 11:16 PM · 15 sec — Camp David operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:16 pm and 11:28 pm.

All 31 conversations from June 20, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 169-002, June 20, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/169-002 (accessed October 12, 2026).