Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 172 › Conversation 172-004

Nixon phone call with Mitchell on 1972 Presidential Election

Friday, June 9, 1972 · 4:55 PM–5:07 PM ET · Camp David Study Desk · 12 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Mitchell, John N.Conversation172-004 on Tape 172 (tape position 00:35:35–00:47:35)StartFriday, June 9, 1972 at 4:55 PMEndFriday, June 9, 1972 at 5:07 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study DeskSourceNixon Library record for 172-004 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417174861 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Mitchell discuss the 1972 Democratic primary, focusing on the "stop-McGovern" movement and the potential political fallout from George McGovern's candidacy. They analyze Edmund Muskie's recent critique of McGovern as an opportunity to portray McGovern as an extremist and note that internal Democratic division serves the Nixon campaign's interests. The two also coordinate strategic efforts to recruit Democrats and independents for Nixon in key states, including California and Texas, while brainstorming tactical campaign theater such as using veterans to protest McGovern’s defense policies.

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NARA Description

On June 9, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone at Camp David from 4:55 pm to 5:07 pm. The Camp David Study Desk taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 172-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 172-4

Date: June 9, 1972
Time: 4:55-5:07 pm
Location: Camp David Study Desk (telephone)

The President talked with John N. Mitchell.

[See Conversation No. 192-11]

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 11/07/2017.
11m 27s cleared for release. One 11s segment remains closed as 172-004-w001.]
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[Duration: 11m 27s]

       1972 campaign
            -Edmund S. Muskie speech
                -John N. Mitchell’s view
                -Charles W. Colson report
                     -ABC prediction
                -Motivations
                     -Democratic Party treatment
                     -Vanity
                           -George W. Romney
                     -Illinois delegation influence
                           -Richard J. Daley
                               -Message to McGovern
                -George S. McGovern
                     -Liberalism
                     -Aid from media
                     -Extreme positions
            -Edward M. Kennedy
                -John N. Mitchell’s opinion of plans
                     -Possible endorsement for George S. McGovern
                           -Pressure
                -Uncommitted voters
            -Democratic Party
            -George S. McGovern
                -Stop McGovern movement
                     -George Meany
                           -Possible reaction
                           -Opinion of McGovern
Show the rest of the log (59 more lines)
                           -External pressure
                     -Hubert H. Humphrey
                           -California
                     -Timing
                -Strategy of campaign
                     -Platform
                -Edmund S. Muskie statement
                -Gallup poll on George S. McGovern

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
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[172-004-w001]
[Duration: 11s]

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      1972 campaign
                    -Democrats
                    -George C. Wallace
                    -Independents
                    -Validity of polls
                         -Internal vs. external
           -Campaign schedule
               -Timing
               -Strength of campaign
           -Democrats
               -Memorandum from the President
               -John B. Connally
               -Texas
                    -Eric G. Johnson
                         -Committee
                         -Recruitment
               -Georgia
               -California
                    -Democrats for Nixon
                         -Strategy
                         -Trip by John N. Mitchell
                         -Meeting with Democrats
                         -Statements wording
           -George S. McGovern
               -Comparison to Edmund S. Muskie and Hubert H. Humphrey
                    -Reasonability
                    -President’s opinion
               -Advisors
                    -John K. Galbraith
                    -Ho Chi Minh’s grandson
               -Melvin R. Laird statement
               -George S. McGovern rally

                     -Melvin R. Laird statement
                     -Veterans of Foreign Wars appearance with white flag

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       Ambassador to North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO] [David M. Kennedy]

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Well, it looks like your muskie thing sort of played out rather interestingly, didn't it?
It did indeed.
That's the first thing he's done right in the whole campaign.
Do you think some of the people you were talking to got to him?
Yes, they did.
Because I got a report earlier, you know, from Colson around just before noon, he said that
Media were predicting, ABC apparently predicted he was going to leave.
Well, not only that, but as of yesterday, he had that position and was going to move that way.
That's what I mean.
They predicted he was going to endorse that move.
leave his candidacy and endorse the other fellow.
That's correct, and he left a lot of people flat-footed, too.
Why do you think he did it?
What were the things that motivated him, in your opinion?
Being talked to by certain segments of the party who have really gone on a stop-McGovern operation.
They're really scared, aren't they, John?
They're scared, and they're, you know, Muskie's not the smartest guy in the world, but he's certainly vain enough to take that little carrot they held out of the deadlock
Maybe you're the man.
You had to save the party again.
Particularly after a fellow has gone down that long road.
You remember even Romney had those delusions right to the last.
After you've gone through it, you always figure out maybe something will hit me.
That's undoubtedly the case.
In addition to that, really what...
got to him was perhaps not the people we've been talking to so much, but they're talking to some of his people out in the field, particularly that Illinois delegation.
Oh, yeah, they're his delegates.
They're his delegates, and they're pretty strong, and they, of course, threw in some names like Bailey and so forth and so on.
Turned the guy right around, apparently, in the middle of the night.
His statement was, it seemed to me,
very good from the standpoint of making the point that needs to be made that he felt that McGovern was extreme, don't you think?
Yeah.
That was factored into it as one of the things that he could do to help the cause.
He's been on the other side of that.
Yeah, as a matter of fact, I'd say, who the hell is calling the kettle black, you know?
But here he is telling McGovern, now look here, you're too liberal.
I know, but this is part of the stop strategy.
I mean, they're all going to say that, huh?
Yeah, very much so.
Well, I suppose the net result of it, though, John, is that McGovern will move over and clean himself up, huh?
Well, he will obviously try, and I think...
The media will try to help him, of course.
The media will try to help him, but the more he tries to move in that direction, the more between now and the convention, if it's still viable, and I think it will be, that they're going to have to repeat and reiterate.
So this is just great.
Repeat and reiterate.
The fact that he has these extreme positions and he can't be getting off them.
So this is just fine.
It means that we don't have to do it.
Yeah, this is much better.
What do you think this must make Kennedy thinking about at the moment?
He probably would be delighted in this because it will keep his options open.
The quicker and faster McGovern got to the point of nomination, of course, his options were being closed out.
That's right.
Except I haven't seen any indications or even have heard any rumblings that he's moving overtly, and I don't know whether or not he can be effective moving covertly.
Yeah.
The question that he's now going to probably have come up against him is the demand of the McGovern people that he endorse him.
Don't you think so?
Yes, yes.
If they get to the point where they think that they can't make it without him, they're going to push awful hard on that.
Yeah, yeah.
Because that would make the difference for the uncommitted.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, it would, but of course it also puts Kennedy in a hell of a spot.
He's either got to indicate that he's still interested or else he's got to back this group that is pushing McGovern, and of course they're his constituency.
They sure are.
They sure are.
But it's a lovely party.
It changes by the hour.
Another interesting thing that's
Scott McGovern movement, unfortunately George Meany is over in Europe, but we've got some people calling him.
He's probably ready to say something, but he's not here.
He should be.
Because he can't stand the fellow.
That's correct, and he's sort of been avoiding the—invading the issue, but all
His support, his Meany supporters in some of these movements and political cohorts outside of it are pushing on Meany to join this stop McGovern thing.
You know, if they'd have started this a week ago, Humphrey would have beaten him in California.
Yep.
And that would have stopped him.
Yes, it would.
But now, I think it's too late.
Don't you?
Well, it probably is.
I would agree with that.
I think he'll get the nomination.
But the better thing is, from our point of view, he's going to get cut up in the process, and the party's going to get cut up.
Yeah.
I suppose the way he'll try to heal himself is to talk to some of these people and then have a nice, clean platform.
Would that be your guess?
Oh, he's going to try.
Sure he's going to try.
But we've got to keep him hanging right on that other... That's it.
And, you know, Muskie took a hell of a step today in saying what he did about this fellow.
You mean in saying he had... That he was taking extreme positions.
Yeah.
Yeah.
God, coming from Muskie, I almost...
I couldn't believe it.
Quite a step.
So, of course, that was a very interesting poll this morning, too, that
the Gallup.
When it shows that among Democrats, he's only 25% right now.
That's correct.
And that Wallace leads them.
Wallace leads them among independents.
Fascinating.
You begin to wonder about these polls at times, too.
Even the ones that we don't control.
Listen, let me tell you, I don't believe a damn one of them.
Do you?
No, frankly.
Because the only ones to believe are your own, that you take to yourself.
Then you can, you know, worry about the...
Excuse me.
Well, even those, I think sometimes things move so fast that you have to put your judgment on top of it.
You bet your life, because they can get out of date.
That's very true.
Well, anyway, it's quite a week.
Well, it's not going to be the last one.
These movements will be... We've got how many weeks?
Three weeks?
Four weeks before the convention?
Four weeks.
And they'll be exciting weeks, I assure you.
And if we can just keep building this fire and keep enlisting more people, which we are... To the extent, John, that you can...
Really sign them up.
That's what really counts, of course.
I mean, now, if you can get some... As I said in that memorandum to you, that keeping Connolly's point, that the door is open, you know, and that we don't let our Republicans keep these new Democrats.
Oh, don't worry about that.
I know that.
Don't worry about that.
The problem, the way you'd have a problem like that is in a state like Texas, of course.
Well, you know what I did in Texas, don't you?
I got Eric Johnson to head the committee there.
The best man you could have.
And, of course, he can bring them all in, and, of course, there'll be more Democrats than Republicans.
Right.
We've kept that situation open down there so that we can move in that direction at the right time.
Not only there, but most of the South.
Georgia.
Yeah, things like that.
And then, of course,
Another real problem area like that is California where we have to, that's virtually necessary to have a democratic organization there.
Well, we've got some of them moving already, and I'm going to be out there a week from now.
Right.
I'm meeting with some of them, by the way.
The Democrats?
The Democrats, yeah.
There, I think having a, they'll argue about it, but having a, I think both nationally and in states.
Yep.
the Democrats for Nixon deal is a good one, or your, of course, another line is to just make it Californians, avoid the Republicans, but the Democrats are the independents.
As you know, we don't use the word Republicans.
Yeah, I know that.
I know, but I meant thinking of things to hang statements on.
Well, as you mentioned the other day, there's a lot of people who don't want to get in bed with the,
Republicans or even the independents, they'd like to stay as Democrats in functions as Democrats for Richard Nixon, and we would like that vehicle.
I suppose it's got that.
It'll be a hot time because, well, you know, really, when you consider this fellow governor, as I was saying earlier today, you know, they ought to be worried about him because with a muskie, despite what he said, and with a Humphrey,
I mean, while we wouldn't think much of having them in the office, they are both considered to be rather reasonable men.
That's true.
You know, that they're sort of, Hubert is happy and Big Ed is a little bit slow, but he's not a nut.
But people, I think, consider this fellow to be a damn fanatic.
Don't you think so?
Not only that, but look at the people around him.
How would you like John Kenneth Galbraith running your economy?
Which will probably be the case.
Yeah.
And Ho Chi Minh's grandson, probably, is for Australia State.
That's what is beginning to frighten people.
You know what might be interesting is to have show up at the next McGovern rally just some veteran with a white flag.
Just a veteran, not a Republican.
Remember, Mel, that Laird statement that if you bought that, we'd better buy some white flags.
Yeah, that's the other billion dollars to add to the budget.
We have a Corps that takes care of those things.
It just might be just a white flag.
He says, I'm the local VFW man.
As a matter of fact, I think we can get the real thing in the VFW and the Legion to do that.
That's what I mean.
I mean the real thing.
Sure.
Because they're all with us on that issue.
Yep.
Very good thought.
Well, have some thought.
I have your ambassador to NATO here to say hello to you.
Oh, well, if you're my ambassador.
I will indeed.
Okay.
And if you've got any more bright ideas like that, I'd like to have them.
All right.
Thanks.

Also recorded on June 9, 1972

  • 192-011 4:55 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 4:55 pm to 5:07 pm.
  • 172-005 5:08 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 5:08 pm.
  • 192-012 5:08 PM · 40 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at 5:08 pm.
  • 172-006 5:13 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 5:13 pm.
  • 192-013 5:13 PM · 34 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at 5:13 pm.
  • 172-007 5:15 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Robert H. Finch talked on the telephone at Camp David from 5:15 pm to 5:23 pm.
  • 192-014 5:15 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Robert H. Finch met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 5:15 pm to 5:23 pm.
  • 172-008 5:26 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 5:26 pm.

All 37 conversations from June 9, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 172-004, June 9, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417174861). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/172-004 (accessed October 28, 2026).