Nixon phone call with Kleindienst on Department of Justice

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Sir, we have the Attorney General.

All right.

Hello, Mr. President.

Well, how was Philadelphia?

It was hot.

Did they welcome the conquering hero?

I spoke at the Poor Richard's Club where you got a card when you were vice president.

Oh, I remember it so many years ago.

I sold them all.

That's when I knew I was going to be there and that you wished them well.

Yeah, yeah.

As a matter of fact, that was the time, you know, Walter Annenberg had never been for me before that appearance.

Is that right?

And he was there that day, and he and his wife were kind of taken with the whole thing.

And that was before 56.

And after that, Annenberg became one of my strongest supporters.

That was, you know, sure you wonder why you do these things, and that was really worth it.

I always use your name in vain, you know.

I always tell them, you know, that you knew I was going to be there, and that you asked me to give them their best.

True, if you don't, you're a damn fool.

Well, I was telling Mitchell this morning after I was...

Haven't I tried to call you?

What really surprised me was the good picture they finally used.

One of you and Mitchell.

Isn't that brilliant?

A good picture?

Well, it was good in the Times, too.

Times and the Post.

Don't think it's going to last, though.

No.

I think it's going to last.

That's how I feel about them.

Yeah, I know.

And don't get soft on them.

That's what I hope John got to give you my message, John Mitchell.

I'm not going to get soft on him.

I'm going over there.

Connolly, when he left, he said, now listen, he's a great admirer.

He said, now you just talk like this is because he had a hard fight.

Don't get soft on these bastards.

And he's absolutely right.

I don't want him.

No.

Hey, John Connolly's a great fellow, isn't he?

Oh, boy, I'll tell you, he's a stand-up guy.

Boy, I'd like to tell you what I think about him sometime.

Yeah, and he's going to be helpful at another time, too.

The, uh...

Uh, on this, uh, your deputy thing, when we were up here today, I talked to Ehrlichman at a great length, and I'd like for you to talk some more about it.

We got a problem on it for a reason that's certainly political.

That is, I'm going to have to probably veto that damn clean water bill because it costs $5 billion more than we asked for, you know, and the money thing is a problem.

Now, vetoing that bill and then moving Ruckelshaus at the same time, while I don't think much of the environmental issue,

could, I think, present a very serious problem.

So talk to him about it.

Let's see what we can do about it.

Well, Mr. President, the serious political problem that I feel that we have potentially

You know, these goddamn conventions down there, and the town going up in smoke, marginal law, tanks, and everything else.

And I've got to have somebody.

A man you can depend upon.

And there's only two or three around here, you know, that meet that requirement.

This is no time to run a kindergarten training school over here.

Why don't you, why don't you, I haven't decided.

I just told John to talk to you about the problems and see if there were any other candidates that could be.

The difficulty is,

Ruckelshaus is an excellent man for any position, you know what I mean?

He's a man that is of cabinet stature, as we've been told.

He could also be attorney general someday, too, you know?

Yeah, or he could also be a damn good senator from Indiana, which we... Well, he could be the attorney general someday.

When he gets tired of me, you know, he would be a great one as a prelude to that.

I know.

He could do anything.

The problem is that the stinking environmental issue is one where we just can't give them the money that they want.

I don't know.

Anyway, talk a little about it and see if you've got any other names, and I'll decide.

We're going to have to square...

I sure wish it'd keep your mind partially open.

Oh, it is open.

It is open.

I haven't presented all the arguments, and I just...

They feel very strongly about the environmental issue.

But my mind is open.

Let's see what the options are.

Okay, sir.

We'll have the swearing-in Monday, huh?

Yes, sir.

I think we're going to do that.

Needless to say, I'm looking forward to it.

We're going to have you and Schultz and Weinberger together.

We thought we'd put three of you in one bag.

That's just fine.

I figured that's the only way we could do it.

The only way we can fill the Eastrum is to have three of you together.

No one of you has got that many friends.

I hope I don't ruin George's image.

You know, I was thinking, though, 19 votes was a pretty shoddy shot for those bastards after all that.

You know, Mr. President, those 19 would have voted against me if all this hadn't occurred.

I think.

Well, of course, they were all, except for Bob Byrd, liberal Democrats.

And he did it for a reason that we're well aware.

And, you know, what we've been involved in here in the Department of Justice is going to have such a controversial nature.

They're going to vote for me against me anyway.

Well, look, they were against you on busing, and they had to be against you on everything.

How do we like that Burger Court now, boy?

I think it's pretty good.

They've been doing well, don't you think?

You're telling me.

There was that five to four, that last one.

One more up there, Mr. President.

One more man?

Yeah.

Yeah, but who are you going to shoot?

Well, I'll tell you, I'm going to get some red-headed broad and stick him on Douglas.

That might pop that...

Nothing else is...

I think they've tried everything on him, haven't they, and nothing works.

You could always hope.

I imagine there are many that would be willing to make the sacrifice.

This is a conspiratorial conversation.

I hope my line isn't tapped by your FBI director.

No, this is actually being called from Camp Dobin.

We're on a radio telephone, so we're broadcasting it to all the people.

To the entire world.

Any listener.

Let me say this, Mr. Brennan, how much I deeply appreciate and will forever be grateful for your support of me during this period of time.

Well, what the heck.

We're not going to run into many fights after this.

after what we've uh the things we've been through here and we were right you know we just had to stick that's the nice thing about it and uh and we there for a while the crunch looked awful awful tight but uh then when we uh

I think that the strategy was good, too, to get those damn hearings closed off, and we did.

Sure, but I also think that the strategy was right to put it up because if they had just been banding around accusations before that Senate, I would have lost that thing by 90 votes.

I agree it was right to have the hearing and then get that 11-4 vote, or 9-4, whatever it was.

11-4.

Well, that, you see, was the critical part.

And also catch up on the reading on the domestic issue.

You've got to get back in the swim again.

Incidentally, sometimes I'd like to talk to you about what we're doing in our planning and coordination with Governor Askew in Florida and everything on these conventions.

Well, whatever you do, just run a tight ship.

I've been working on it for months and I hope it's going to be tight, Mr. President.

What I mean is that

I think we want to be as reasonable as we can be, but in the Democratic Convention, if they get too rough, we simply have to... We just can't let them burn that.

We've got to protect them, but we've got to make them ask for it, too.

That's being very well programmed.

They've got to ask for it.

I think with McGovern likely to be the candidate.

i think that's going to really tone this stuff down do you sure he's going to get these kooky guys like reddy davis who are supporting him and get him aside and say now look at we've got to be quiet for them but then take off on ours well i don't think so i don't think you're going to want to do that you know so this course you know they have to move it it's interesting to note that uh interesting to note that muskie didn't go for him but i was i was surprised at that i guess they're going to try some try to to move him to the middle but

Let me say that if he's able to move to the middle, we've seen the ultimate in a change.

You know, after all... Well, that's what they mean by change.

The big thing about him, his big asset with the damn press, has been that he's such a pure, you know, thinker.

Ideologue.

That's right.

I'll tell you another thing, though, that if he comes within 50 votes of that and doesn't get it, that place is going to go up in smoke.

Is it?

Sure.

Those zealots, those young firebrands and radical revolutionaries are going to tear that place apart.

Well, he has a lot of those for him, doesn't he?

He sure does, and they're in his delegation.

Yeah.

He's got every kook in the United States as a delegate.

That's great.

Good luck to him.

Okay.

Thanks for the call, but see you Monday.

Bye, sir.

Nixon phone call with Kleindienst on Department of Justice

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 9, 1972

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