Conversation 172-007

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Hello.

Hello, Bob.

Yes, sir.

I just thought I'd tell you that I was so glad you were wrong on the Schmidt thing.

Well, I corrected it.

Oh, I know you did, but I remember the time you talked to me, you were so disappointed, and then the later thing turned right around.

Well, they hit a note of real pride, particularly that Yorba Linda group.

Has he got that district?

Yes, they changed the district on him.

So the issue there was sort of really a challenge as to whether you had done a good job or not.

Yeah, yeah.

I didn't know that Schmitz was working for Ashbrook.

He was the only congressman on the delegation.

I'll be darned.

But wasn't that a good thing, though?

It was a good thing, it really is.

This fellow would be a good congressman, too.

Yeah.

Well, the thing that is pleasing to me, too, is that

Even though he's on the right, it sort of shows that support for the president kind of a deal.

That was the whole issue.

And Schmitz basically is a wild right winger.

He was a state senator when I was presiding.

He's just one of those basically just so totally egocentric.

Well, he's doctrinaire.

Well, and arrogant.

Is he?

I didn't know him.

How are things out there?

Well, boy, they're sure supporting.

I just did the Combined Volunteers of America and the downtown Los Angeles Rotary, and my God, they had about a thousand people.

And I came on strong on this generation apiece and what really had been accomplished in those.

I mean, all your old friends were there, of course, but then they just stand up and applaud.

It's the damnedest thing.

Four months ago I was so bearish about California, and right now with everything we've got going for us, we're going to win it, but we've got to work like hell to fight.

You know, did you happen to see the Yankelevich article in the New York Times this morning?

No, sir.

Well, it's the second in the series where the Times and that survey of theirs interviewed the Democratic Hubert Humphrey voters.

except 40% of them indicated they'd vote for Nixon if McGovern were nominated.

Well, they asked me about that.

Yeah, they asked me, the press asked me that here, and I said, well, I thought it would be higher.

Good.

I didn't know that's what they were talking about.

They just said there was a hole.

Yeah, that's what it is.

And I just said I'm sure it would be higher.

Yeah, well, that's it.

Did you hear about Muskie today?

I understand he turned it down, and I... And he also said, which I told John Mitchell, I said, look, this is a pot calling the kettle black.

He said that

The government's too extreme to have to refine some of his views or something.

The other way I turned that one, too, and I said, you know, they're hopelessly caught in this ideological battle, and they're going to have to try to settle this in the platform in other ways.

And I said, the other point is that Democrats are obviously going to have to be making all these deals, and Muskie wants to be able to wheel and deal.

And so I think we should throw that wheel and deal thing in there.

That's good.

Because that's exactly what he's doing.

He knows that if he goes in now, he doesn't have any bargaining position.

No, he's going to make them pay a little something for it.

Of course, it's really something.

But the really major effort that is now being made by the press and will be made is to really clean up McGovern and make him appear to be moderate.

But do you think it'll work?

Well, I think we've got some more work to do in New York, not because it'll make any difference in New York, but I think that if we can probably help you enough to...

Humphrey, as I tried to explain in that memo, really didn't draw the issue as fully as he might have if he'd had more money and more time to push McGovern as an extreme.

And as I said also, McGovern does look too damn plausible on television.

That's right.

He looks like a very reasonable fellow.

And so what we have to do here, we're to be in New York, and that's a great state to do it in, is just push him, push him, push him further over to the left.

and let those goops that are out there and the nuts that are coming in from out of state to support him and so on.

That's our last chance in a campaign situation apart from the generals.

Well, they ought to hang the people that are for him, Jerry Rubin, Hoffman, you know, Abby Hoffman.

In other words, the association thing.

They ought to also take the extreme views, but it's really the...

The fact that he's trying to move is an indication that he considers that he's way over there, and they've got to use terms that are easily understood, extremist, dedicated isolationist.

Naive.

Yeah.

Because he is.

He's just so...

Yeah, we'll get out of Vietnam and then we'll public opinion and get our prisoners back.

What happened to 16,000 French that were caught in Dien Bien Phu?

They never got them back.

That was the biggest hand I got today when I said, well, because somebody asked me on the floor, well, about McGovern's position.

And I said, well, you know, there's one example of so many differences between the president and McGovern.

And you come on with that POW thing and they just

to climb up the wall and these are not...

I know, I don't want to...

When they had Volunteers of America, because there's so many business entrepreneurs, they used to be on the board and I went through that.

Sure.

There are a lot of do-gooders in that operation.

Sure, sure.

Boy, they all just come right up the side of the wall.

I really have a feeling, Bob, that you're right, that if Humphrey had started hitting a little bit sooner and with a little more money, he'd have taken it.

Or if it had gone one more week.

Yeah.

Of course, that's just as well.

I think it's as well as he didn't because let it ride and all that.

I don't think that they're going to wrap it up.

Although, what do you think Teddy has to do now?

He's locked.

He's locked in with McGovern.

You think he's going to have to endorse him?

Well, he can't.

He won't do that, but his people are locked in.

McGovern is up on front so that if McGovern knuckled in or not, it would be such an obvious deal.

But I think really Teddy was done when Wallace was hit.

You think so?

Because people fear that?

Well, they fear that, and it gives them an excuse they need not to want to go after Teddy because they say that would endanger them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, anyway, that Schmitz one was really something.

I read in the paper the next day, I didn't get your memorandum until afterwards, and I said, my gosh, see, the only report I had on California was yours among that district.

So I just assumed it was gone.

And the Times the next day, or the Post, had it apparently won by about 4,000 votes.

Right.

And then, of course, that third candidate, he had 9,000 votes.

So Schmitz was really in his own party behind the... Who was the third?

There was another Republican?

Yes.

You see, we thought it was another McCarthy situation because he was one against two in his own party.

Yeah.

And the vote...

against him was about 14,000.

He only had 40,000.

The vote against him was about 14,000.

So it was a solid defeat.

It wasn't just a creep-by on one-on-one.

And the other candidate, who was a school board member and a veteran, he was fighting with

the winner on the basis of who's supporting the president more.

In other words, he was taking votes directly out of... Out of our side.

That's right.

I get it.

It was not a case of his taking votes away from Schmitz at all.

Right, right, right.

Okay.

Well, good luck.

Good luck.

Thank you.