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Conversation 176-008

TapeTape 176StartSaturday, August 19, 1972 at 12:33 PMEndSaturday, August 19, 1972 at 12:41 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Recording deviceCamp David Study Desk
AI Summary

President Nixon and H.R. Haldeman discuss the inclusion of the Tanya Savicheva story in the President's upcoming acceptance speech, debating whether it should be used following a similar presentation in a convention film. Nixon expresses frustration with his writing staff's desire to minimize the emotional impact of the story, arguing that the repetition of such narratives is essential for effective communication. Ultimately, Nixon decides to proceed with the inclusion of the story, dismissing concerns that its repetition would be poorly received by the public or the press.

Richard NixonH.R. HaldemanAcceptance speechTanya SavichevaSpeechwritingPublic relations
AudioNARA Description

On August 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:33 pm to 12:41 pm. The Camp David Study Desk taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 176-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 176-8

Date: August 19, 1972
Time: 12:33 pm - 12:41 pm
Location: Camp David Study Desk

                                        (rev. Mar-02)

The President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

[See Conversation No. 205-12]

     The President's forthcoming acceptance speech
          -Raymond K. Price, Jr.
               -Tanya Savicheva
                      -Film during the convention
                          -The President’s televised address to the Soviet people, May 28, 1972
                      -Use of Tanya material
                          -Possible portion of speech
                                 -Haldeman’s view
                                 -The President’s view
                          -Haldeman’s view
                          -Ronald Ziegler
                          -White House staff views
                                 -Writing staff
                                 -Public relations staff
                                        -Richard A. Moore
                                        -William L. Safire
          -Repetition of stories
               -Church services
                      -Parable of the prodigal son
                      -Funerals
                      -Easter
                      -Christmas
               -Education of speech writers
                      -The President’s view
                      -William F. Gavin
                           -Georgetown University

*****************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 11/08/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal returnable]
[176-008-w001]
[Duration: 1m 5s]

     The President’s selection of Vice President as stated in acceptance speech
          -Ronald Ziegler
          -Ray Price

                                         (rev. Mar-02)

          -Spiro T. Agnew
                -Press coverage
                -Critics
                -Suitability for job

*****************************************************************
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah, yes, sir.
I got Ray Price's stuff.
He's worked on some things.
But he mentions the Tom, the Tanya thing, but he...
He says that, uh, I mean, the innocence is because one of the films that will be shown at the convention, and we hope will be carried on TV, features your use of this on Soviet TV.
He says using it in acceptance speech poses problems, so he says that he would use it in a very short, I'm trying to suggest a very short way.
I disagree with him.
But here's the way he would do it.
He says, when I spoke to the Soviet people last May, I recalled the story.
Oh, no.
Oh, it loses the whole thing.
I don't know, I just don't know.
Yes, it may not.
If you're going to do that, you shouldn't do it.
Yeah.
But you know, it's the way that they show you the reasons for something.
Every time they do this, they always kill the story at the beginning.
Have you heard, it's like a joke, have you heard this before?
Have you heard this before?
Well, even if you haven't, it kills it.
Yep.
Or if you said, this reminds me of an old story, that, you know.
Yep.
Now, this is a very important decision.
Well, I just wonder how you feel.
Well, I don't ask any more people.
I don't want a wrong judgment.
I haven't asked anybody about that one.
Yeah.
That I feel very strongly on, that you should use it, that the film sets you up to use it, not detracts from it.
Mainly because I think the fact that you say that it does not show me delivering it all the way through.
Just a very little bit.
Yeah, and then it shows the pictures and so forth and so on.
That's right.
And then you play it back personally when you're done.
He says, here's a typical way that there is, and a few simple words for a diary told by one of the Medets that are family.
So you make it a story.
And then the final words, all are dead, only Tonya remains.
You take all the emotion out and make it a statistic.
Am I wrong?
No, I think that's what it does to me.
That's exactly what it does.
And it just, nothing could be worse.
If that's the way you have to do it, then you shouldn't use it.
And that may be what he's trying to do, is get you not to use it by making it bad enough that you won't.
He wants it used in an unemotional way, let's face it.
That's ridiculous, because the whole point of it is to be emotional.
the whole thing is basically the whole part that that should be answers it's just it's it's just you know it's cold and beautiful and it's just god damn you've got to put some warmth in it i don't know why that does anybody understand that over there any of these people maybe they don't believe in it is that it or is it because of the press that's isn't that the problem
Well, don't ask Bigwood about this one, because he'll be against it, too.
I mean, he would be, obviously.
Well, I don't know that he would, but I haven't raised it with him anyway.
Well, I think he would, because the press are all going to hammer and all that thing that I thought was emotional and small-c and all the rest.
But the point is, do we have anybody on the staff that believes we should use this?
I mean, I'm just, I mean, I'm speaking to all the writing staff.
I don't know about the writing staff.
The PR staff, I raised the question when we looked at the film of the problem.
Who is the PR staff?
Well, Moore and Saffire.
Who was there?
No, Saffire wasn't there.
He was gone at the time.
But anyway, their feeling was, and mine is, after seeing the film, the way it comes now especially, they said use it even stronger.
Yeah, that it makes it all the better because it sets the framework for it.
And so you're repeating the same words.
What's wrong with that?
Everybody repeats stories, Bob.
Oh, sure.
And you have a different and larger audience.
A larger one, that's for sure.
You know, it's a funny thing.
People like to hear stories repeated.
You know, when you go to church, how many times have you heard the parable?
Sure.
The prodigal son.
Sure.
Do they change it?
No.
No?
Well, with the funerals, they go through the same stuff every time.
No, but I mean, you take the parables, and I'm the preacher.
Yep.
He reads it exactly as it was.
Yep.
And you've heard it a thousand times.
Yep.
You hear it.
You ever hear an Easter service?
Sure.
Christmas, sir.
Uh, we're over.
I just don't know.
It's, uh...
well they're all mean well but it's what it is it's the it's the goddamn education these people get I think that's a problem they ought to quit going to college yeah and that's why that's why that fellow that has left us Gavin gave me the only thing that was worth a in 68 the only man the only man in the whole damn staff that came up with anything I could use well the rest I put in you know what I mean was Gavin who had was basically he had a good he had education but been a relatively
Instead of a working man's type of colleague.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I think it was probably Georgetown or something like that.
They deliberately wash off all the heart of the people.
I guess that's it.
No heart.
All right.
I think I'll go ahead and use it.
Go ahead.
you
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