Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 18 › Conversation 018-019
Nixon phone call with Colson on 1972 Presidential Election and Edmund Muskie
Sunday, January 9, 1972 · 12:55 PM–1:18 PM ET · White House Telephone · 22 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Charles Colson discussed the state of the 1972 Democratic primary race, focusing on the vulnerabilities of candidates like Edmund Muskie, specifically regarding his criticism of the administration's space shuttle proposal. The two men reviewed political intelligence on candidate fundraising, polling data across key primary states, and rumors surrounding Edward Kennedy’s personal life. Additionally, they evaluated the political benefit of successfully opposing Democratic-backed campaign finance legislation, noting that denying the opposition access to tax-funded campaign subsidies would force them to struggle with financial shortages during the primary season.
- 1972 Presidential Election
- Edmund Muskie
- Campaign Finance
- Space Shuttle
- Primary Elections
- Democratic Party
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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Thank you.
Immediately, of course, he reacted to your space shuttle announcement by saying it was a boondoggle.
And, of course, then went to Florida, where it's one of the most popular things in the Cape Kennedy area.
What do they think down there?
Oh, the press have just raised hell with them over there.
What press?
You mean the Florida press?
Yes, sir.
The Florida press have just raised hell.
Of course, it's Florida and California.
This is a big deal.
That's right.
It'll save the aerospace industry, you know.
The Democrats are in a hell of a spot.
It's a little bit like the SST.
Well, there you are with this base thing.
I don't think the country really is for it.
You know what I mean?
And I don't think the country is for the SST.
They didn't understand.
But on the other hand, the country isn't going to vote against a candidate for being for him, and yet individual areas damn well will.
That's right.
According to one TV report last night, Muskie may have blown his chances in Florida completely because, of course, that's a very...
you take that whole Orlando complex and then Cape Kennedy.
And that was really a very dumb thing, because I think he could have ducked that one.
He didn't have to walk into it.
I noticed that McGovern is, there's others, who is it, Mondale is going to have hearings.
As a matter of fact, we may not get it, you know, which of course is...
which is one of those things is that not too much spending this year anyway, but the point is that we've made our effort on it, and that's it.
Well, it's symbolic, and I'm delighted we did it because it is a hell of a big thing in California.
It's a damn big thing in New York.
Connecticut.
Connecticut, that's right.
A number of key states.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, one thing I was thinking about the, you know, the card business.
I'm wondering if that's totally secure.
It can be done in such a way that it is.
From whom?
Who would be doing it?
The Humphrey people?
No, I would think their own friends of Kennedy.
But on the other hand, I would assume, though, that then he would immediately repudiate it, wouldn't he?
Yep.
But at that point, the damage is... Would have to be done awfully late, I would think.
I would think probably about, let's see if the balloting is on the 7th, I would like to see them arrive up there on the 5th.
Well, these people that are interested in it, of course, we have nothing to do with it.
We couldn't stop it if we wanted to, but I just think those things sometimes, our Democratic friends really play their games rough, don't they?
They sure do.
They sure do, Mr. President.
Well, I'll tell you one thing.
It was quite a battle, but it's really worth getting rid of that tax credit, isn't it?
The checkoff?
Oh, my God.
You know, when you stop to think what that would have done for these clowns.
That's right.
Just build them out completely.
You know, that kind of money after the primaries would have...
would have solidified the party.
One of the reasons that they're going to have the same kind of problems they had in 1968 is that whoever gets the nomination likely is going to have to start from zero on money.
And he's got a big job to come out of Miami and raise the dough needed.
But that would have just ended it to him right on the silver platter.
And it's amazing how well we came out of that one, Mr. President.
Everybody gave us a great victory on it.
I was amazed that we didn't get more of the kind of snide tarping from the liberals that were keeping the poor old deprived Democrats from getting their funds.
We came out of it, I think, damned well, extremely well.
Pastore is trying now to bring up a new legislation to repeal Section 315.
And, of course, that's worth several million bucks to them.
He failed as part of the campaign reform bill to get it.
And we're going to have another tussle in the Congress next year on the question of whether they repeal it or suspend it.
And if they do, even, of course, obviously you wouldn't debate, but what they would do is make free television time available to the candidates.
If they repeal it, yeah.
If they repeal it.
Which would be for us and for them, but it would help them a lot more.
A hell of a lot more.
We'll see you then.
Well, I hope you have a good birthday today, Mr. President.
I sure will.
Thank you, sir.
NARA Description
On January 9, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 12:55 pm to 1:18 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 018-019 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 18-19
Date: January 9, 1972
Time: 12:55 pm - 1:18 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Charles W. Colson.
[See Conversation No. 312-7]
******************************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/19/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[018-019-w001]
[Duration: 1m 41s]
Birthday greetings
Hubert H. Humphrey's announcement of candidacy
-Location
-Philadelphia
-Tour to Florida
Edmund S. Muskie
-Press reactions to announcement
-Donald H. Oberdorfer
-Criticisms
-Reaction by liberals
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Edmund S. Muskie
-Space shuttle announcement
-Edmund S. Muskie's reaction
-Florida
-Cape Kennedy
-Press reaction
-California
-Aerospace industry
-Democrats
-Public support
-Supersonic transport [SST]
-Muskie’s reaction
-Chances in Florida
George S. McGovern
Walter F. Mondale's Congressional hearings
-California, New York, Connecticut
******************************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/20/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[018-019-w002]
[Duration: 6m 41s]
Vermont special election
-Republican house candidate
-Robert T. Stafford
-Richard W. Mallary
-Judge O’Brien
-Popularity
Polls
-Becker poll
-Northern New England
-Connecticut
-New Hampshire
-Comparison to George Gallup's polls
-Vermont
-Time taken
-Early November
-Evaluation
Albert Sindlinger
-Votes for the President
-Evaluation of support for the President
-1968 comparison
Harris poll
-Results, figures
-Humphrey
-Techniques
-Comparison to George Gallup's polls
Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
-Robert Monks
-Senatorial candidate against Margaret Chase Smith in Maine
-Reasons for not seeking the Presidency
-Edward M. Kennedy’s new girl
-Kennedy family situation
-[Virginia] Joan (Bennett) Kennedy
******************************************************************************
Campaign practices
-Security of effort
-Apparent source
-Hubert H. Humphrey
-Edward M. Kennedy's friends
-Democrats’ campaign tactics
******************************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/21/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[018-019-w003]
[Duration: 8m 2s]
George S. McGovern
-Showing in New Hampshire
-Chances against Edmund S. Muskie
-Samuel W. Yorty
Vance Hartke
-President’s opinion
-Support in New Hampshire
New Hampshire
-Estes Kefauver
-Voting behavior
-Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr., John N. Ashbrook
-Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr.
-Support
-John N. Ashbrook
-Support
-William Loeb's backing
-Support for the President
-Democrat vote
-Support for the President
-Charles W. Colson's talk with John N. Mitchell
-Manchester
-Catholic wards
-Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy's support
Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
-Robert Monks
-California
-Personal problem
-Standing in polls
-Edmund S. Muskie
Edmund S. Muskie
-Weaknesses
-New Hampshire primary
-Florida
-John V. Lindsay
-George C. Wallace
-Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
-Conservatives
-Lack of support
-Space shuttle statement
-Barry M. Goldwater, Sr.
-Social Security
-TVA
-Statements on the Vietnam War
-Weaknesses
Eugene J. McCarthy
-Primaries
-Illinois, Wisconsin
-Oregon, Nebraska
-Pennsylvania
Primaries
-Money problems of Democrats
-John V. Lindsay
-Sources
-Hubert H. Humphrey
-Sources of money
-Jews
-Max Fischer
-Labor
-Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
-Labor
-Jews
-Jewish contributions
-Edmund S. Muskie
-Amount
-[First name not known] Feinberg
Edmund S. Muskie
-Money problems
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Tax credit legislation
-Check-off for campaign contribution
-Help for Democrats
-Elimination
-Effect on Democrats
-Tax credit issue
-John O. Pastore's proposed legislation
-Administration opposition
-Television time
-Value to DemocratsAlso recorded on January 9, 1972
- 018-016 12:39 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:39 pm and 12:41 pm.
- 312-001 12:39 PM · 33 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:39 pm and 12:41 pm.
- 018-017 12:41 PM · 12 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 12:41 pm to 12:52 pm.
- 312-004 12:41 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:41 pm to 12:52 pm.
- 018-018 12:52 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:52 pm and 12:55 pm.
- 312-005 12:52 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:52 pm and 12:55 pm.
- 312-006 12:52 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:52 pm and 12:55 pm.
- 312-007 12:55 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:55 pm to 1:18 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 018-019, January 9, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/018-019 (accessed September 18, 2026).