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Conversation 184-010

TapeTape 184StartMonday, December 18, 1972 at 11:25 AMEndMonday, December 18, 1972 at 11:35 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceCamp David Study Desk
AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss the ongoing bombing and mining campaign against North Vietnam, specifically focusing on the operational impact of weather conditions, B-52 losses, and the destruction of North Vietnamese radio facilities. Kissinger provides updates on the progress of the air strikes while noting that the administration has initiated a new round of peace negotiations in hopes of achieving a settlement. The two also address concerns regarding leaked information about the campaign and the broader strategic necessity of maintaining American credibility with allies and adversaries alike.

Vietnam WarOperation Linebacker IIB-52 StratofortressPeace negotiationsMilitary strategyNational security leaks
AudioNARA Description

On December 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:25 am to 11:35 am. The Camp David Study Desk taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 184-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 184-10

Date: December 18, 1972
Time: 11:25 am - 11:35 am
Location: Camp David Study Desk

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

       The President’s schedule
            -Dinner party
                  -Richard L. Wilson
                  -Joseph W. Alsop
                  -Adm. Thomas H. and Carrie Ellen (Foy) Moorer
                  -Announcement
                         -Timing

       Vietnam War
            -US bombing and mining of North Vietnam
                 -Hanoi announcement
                      -Timing
                      -Attacks on radio stations
                 -B-52s
                      -Weather
                      -Losses
                             -Expectations
                                   -[Hanoi]
                                        -Surface to air missiles [SAMs]
                      -Number
                      -Schedule
                      -SAMs
                      -Losses
                             -Expectations
                      -Purpose
                 -Naval strikes
                      -Tactical Air [TACAIR] strikes
                             -A-6s
                          -11-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                   Tape Subject Log
                     (rev. June-08)

                                          Conversation No. 184-10 (cont’d)

             -Timing
             -A-6s, A-3s
             -F-111s
             -Airfields
             -Timing
-William Beecher’s New York Times article
      -Source
      -Accuracy
      -Source
             -Defense Department
                   -Melvin R. Laird
                   -[David] Kenneth Rush
-Hanoi announcement
      -Tone
             -Negotiations
-Resumption of negotiations
      -US message to North Vietnam
      -Expected reply
             -Timing
      -Settlement agreement
             -Timing
                   -1973 Inauguration
-Purpose
      -US credibility
             -North Vietnam
             -People’s Republic of China [PRC], Soviet Union
-Hanoi announcement
-Apollo XVII Astronauts
-Public relations [PR]
      -Handling
-Beecher’s New York Times article
      -Source
             -Purpose
             -Timing
                   -North Vietnam’s response
             -Ronald L. Ziegler, Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
             -Attacks and radio stations
             -Defense Department
                   -Laird
                   -Rush
                                                -12-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. June-08)

                                                               Conversation No. 184-10 (cont’d)

                              -William P. Rogers
                              -Unknown person
                              -Defense Department
                                    -William J. Baroody, Jr.
                                          -Laird
                  -Weather
                  -Support aircraft
                        -Number
                  -Airplane losses
                        -B-52s
                              -SAM
                                    -Report
                              -Pilots
                        -Past experience
                  -Forthcoming report
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hei, hei, hei.
The wind is blowing me out of here.
One attack from the Bay Coast on the other side of the town.
This morning, Hanoi announced that the mining had, well, 24 hours ago.
Right.
And Drake only came about it now.
They've been under attack for the last four hours.
They've been under attack.
They've been under attack, and they haven't announced it yet.
This may be due to the fact that we went after the radio station.
Right.
But, uh, they've been in with 48, T-52.
The weather is not good enough for T-52.
Right.
And, uh, they've got down a lot.
And a damaged one, but the damaged one got back to the bay.
But one leased the two going into the yoke.
But we expected to lose up to three, because this is very heavy.
This is a heavy expense on the present world.
A loss of one is not good.
Mind you, you expected two altogether, but there's still two more ways to go.
They're going with 179 altogether.
The next one is going in half an hour, and the next one after that is going in five.
But on the other hand, it's likely that usually they fire most of their fans at the first place, or many of them, and after that
They tend to exhaust themselves a bit.
But, it's good that we have to wait 1-2 years.
Yes, of course.
But we have to expect that if we go in, that's the reason to be in there for another 1-2 years.
That's the most we can do.
Got you.
Just a question, wouldn't you leave me?
Yes, sir.
You got it?
Yes, sir.
Are they able to follow us?
Yes, sir.
Are they able to follow us?
Yes, sir.
Are they able to follow us?
Yes, sir.
That's at 18, that's 111.
He's not a very good guy.
And so are all the other guys.
He's a good guy, you know.
All the other guys, they get hit in the air, they start down one leg.
But this is a night act, so they don't put up any lights.
But they'll be on hold in three minutes, if it wasn't me.
Oh, it's such a... such a...
... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ...
But if the rebels do pass with the civilian techniques that they have, you don't think it's going to be a problem?
Yeah.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold on.
It was very mild, but it flooded me very hard.
It doesn't make any difference to the reason that we asked it to be that way anymore.
We didn't like the reason.
We didn't like the reason that we asked it to be that way anymore.
We didn't like the reason.
We delivered a message to them today to resume the talks, and this will get an answer by Tuesday.
No, I'm not sure.
I think the chances are better than 50-50 that they're not after that.
Let me show you that again.
No chance to wrap it up, and I'll do it again.
They would have given it to us, but it was one time before that they would have wrapped it up.
That's the point in all today.
You are leading us, but this time, this way they have to wrap it up free.
If you have to fly the whole flight, you have to do it like this.
Det burde, det burde, det burde, det burde, det burde, det burde, det burde.
Det er merkt.
Det er merkt.
Det er merkt.
Det er merkt.
I have no idea.
I don't know why he just waited until the noise started screaming.
He called them again this morning.
I don't know why he did it.
Of course, these only keep, you know, these knocked out their radio.
Yeah.
Well, I don't think they're going to have a lot of general requests of an hour or two before the noise starts to, you know, to the second day radio, you know.
I guess part of the problem is that there's going to be many people at the time of time, so you always have to just try to get out of the station and get the lowest one.
And the layer that's doing this on the ground, one of the things we used to do, we were able to do, we were able to do,
Hahaha.
What he doing?
I don't know.
He's good.
He's good.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But he would do it if the player throws it up.
Yeah.
No, no, not if the player throws it up.
Well, yeah, yeah.
He would do it, yeah.
But the weather was out of control.
The weather was out of control.
And we had enough, we had 220 support aircraft out there.
In the distance it was 48.
The plane that was knocked down, was knocked down by a hand.
Probably.
We don't have a full report here.
Almost certainly because they can't get it in that size.
But our experience has been that on the second day, there's usually much less damage.
Thank you for watching!
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