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Conversation 189-008

TapeTape 189StartWednesday, May 17, 1972 at 9:52 AMEndWednesday, May 17, 1972 at 10:06 AMTape start time00:25:38Tape end time00:37:05ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceCamp David Hard Wire
AudioNARA Description

On May 17, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 9:52 am to 10:06 am. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 189-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No.189-8

Date: May 17, 1972
Time: 9:52 am - 10:06 am
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

Henry A. Kissinger talked with the President.

     Greetings

     The President’s forthcoming trip to the Soviet Union
          -Preparations
               -Reading material
                      -The President’s view
          -Andrei A. Gromyko and Leonid I. Brezhnev
               -Communications
                      -The channel
                      -William P. Rogers
                      -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
                            -Message
                            -Brezhnev
                            -Rogers
          -Kissinger's preparations

     Vietnam
          -Decision to mine and blockade
               -The President’s view
               -Public support
               -South Vietnamese morale
                     -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
          -North Vietnamese offensive
               -Kontum
                                         6

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 10/06)
                                                            Conv. No. 189-8 (cont.)


     -Air Strikes
           -Sorties
                 -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
                 -Number
           -Weather in North Vietnam
           -A bridge
     -Priorities
           -Number of sorties
     -Michael J. Mansfield
           -Position
           -Amendment
                 -The President’s view

Soviet Summit
     -Salzburg stopover
     -Plenary sessions
          -President's participation
                -The President’s view
     -Negotiations
          -Conditions
     -Agreements
          -News release
          -Limitations

Kissinger's schedule
     -Dinner with Stewart J.O. Alsop
     -Camp David
           -Dogwood Lodge
           -Breakfast
           -Meeting

Vietnam
     -Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] estimates in 1968
          -Importance
     -Soviet Summit
     -Congress
          -Bills to end the war
     -Media coverage
          -Soviets

The President’s forthcoming trip to the Soviet Union
                                               7

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 189-8 (cont.)


          -President's television speech to Soviet people
                -Length
          -Toasts
                -Length
                -Speechwriters
                -Length
                -Method of delivery
                -Translations
                -Brezhnev
                -Method of delivery
                      -Dobrynin
                -Length
                      -Translation
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello?
Hi, Henry, how are you?
Fine.
Been plowing through these books.
My God, you gave me enough work for two months here.
Yeah, sure.
No, no, it's an excellent job, though.
Packed a really
That'd be position.
Right.
Right, I understand.
Sure.
Sure.
Incidentally, one small thing I wanted to mention.
Be sure you warn Gromyko and his impression that they've got to be very careful not to talk about the special channel
where Rogers is involved, you see what I mean?
Because then we'd have to explain what the hell it is to him.
You can see why.
When you talk to Dabrina, you can just say, now look, they can talk about the communication that Breshtov and I have, but let's not, let's just be sure, you know, it's just one of those things, somebody might just drop a hint, we'll do this in the special channel, and Rogers will want to know what the hell is, we just can't get this thing involved in that.
whatever, coming along.
Well, you're getting all prepared for yourself.
You're coming along fine.
Oh, did you?
Good.
Good.
Good.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Well, that's good.
That's good.
They were probably appreciative of your visit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You mumbled back, I presume.
Yep.
Well, anyway, one thing we can be sure of, Henry, there's no decisions that's been made since the post-war period that was more difficult or more necessary.
But we had to do it.
We had to do it.
You know, I think perhaps the major byproduct of this, well, or two or three, one, the morale of our own country and the fact that, you know, by two to one people improve and they're, you know, they're a little proud again.
And second, the morale of South Vietnamese.
I think their morale is stepping up some, don't you think so?
It's a lovely word.
Hagen seems to feel that they're fighting better.
I'm doing this now, the next point of attack.
After they get it, where the hell are they gonna go?
The air that Abrams coordinates is going to run 1200 sorties tonight, so I've got that.
The weather, too, we want to be sure we continue to crank them in the north.
Take up the balance of that bridge and whatever else is necessary.
Oh, I don't mean to put everything, everything should go in the battlefield first, but the point is they've got to get their 200 sorties in there as soon as it clears.
They've got to get in there and just let them know that we're still around.
The way our friend Mansfield is acting, he'll go up the wall again, but God damn him, he just does nothing but cut us up.
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
The latest amendment.
All that sort of thing.
Give him the store away.
Just turn it down.
Finding the little trip from Salisbury.
Well, quite is.
We say we offered that, and that keeps doing anything else with the Russians before we go.
We're not going to agree to any damn kind of recession, though.
Oh hell, I'm not going to protest with faith.
You know, that's the wrong way to do it.
We keep talking about withdrawal and we're ready to negotiate.
We've got all kinds of conditions.
just just said can we just put out a something from me from me just say that i do not want any agreements i don't want anything done there except by ourselves i don't want anybody else there
I'll come up with, uh, tonight after, after the dinner with, uh, Stuart Alston.
Okay.
We'll have a, we'll put you in, uh, talk with the two of you.
All right.
And we'll say that, uh, we'll put you in, so at breakfast at 8.30.
All right.
All right.
In the meantime, just keep the motion going.
I don't think there's any reason either.
There are all these problems of trying to prove that the CIA estimate in 1968 is not relevant to the situation today.
I just don't think it all matters anymore.
It's a question of what works.
No, but I think the point we made is that I don't need to be dealing with anyone.
Just let it through.
Before the summit's a good idea because it might jeopardize what we get done there.
What do you think, Mike?
Yeah, because all these, I would think these damn bilbriders are climbing a wall anyway, aren't they?
Are they?
Yeah.
They don't know how to judge this.
The president was very rash.
The Russians saved the son of Jesus Christ.
That's a great way to line it up.
Give the Russians all the credit in the world at this point.
Afterwards, we don't have to worry about that.
That's right.
Okay, thank you.
Who are you working on?
And all three of them are coming out.
They'll come out.
They'll come out in there.
I just...
But the one I have to, of course, have, particularly as a den television thing, is I said not a word over 1,800 to 2,000 words.
2,000 absolute maximum, preferably 1,800, so that you don't go more than 30 minutes.
And that's the way it's going to be.
And everything else short, as short as possible.
They could just not give me grade long.
I mean, the toe should be 150 word, you know, and it's out of cap.
And that way it will force them to think more precisely.
They don't say too much.
That will say enough.
Right.
Okay, fine.
Just tell them, brevity is the thing.
And I don't want any supplemental notes or any of that sort, you know, because
Most of these things I'm going to read anyway, because of the translation problems.
We have to read the toast and so forth and so on, because Brezhnev will read his money.
Yeah.
Well, since that's the case, we might discuss that.
You can discuss that with the brand and say Brezhnev's going to read their toast and the president will read his.
So they don't have to throw one up.
But then tell our people.
I mean, the main thing is they've got to keep them short.
Like, for example, a toast or
statement and so forth has got to be, since you've got to have it read in that translation, you've got to figure what we're talking about basically 250 words maximum.
See, that's because 250 words means it takes you six minutes with the translation.
That's long enough.
Don't you agree?
All right.
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