{"conversationCode":"195-005","tapeNumber":195,"conversationNumber":5,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-195-005","startDateTime":"1972-06-29T15:07:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-06-29T15:18:00.000Z","startDate":"29-Jun-1972","startTime":"11:07 AM","endDate":"29-Jun-1972","endTime":"11:18 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.;","description":"On June 29, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 11:07 am to 11:18 am. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 195-005 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDHW","recordingDevice":"Camp David Hard Wire","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 195-5\n\nDate: June 29, 1972\nTime: 11:07-11:18 am\nLocation: Camp David Hard Wire\n\nThe President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.\n\n[See Conversation No. 135-2; one item has been withdrawn]","filename":["195-005-splice.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:30:35","tapeEnd":"00:44:52","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A."],"prevCode":"195-004","nextCode":"195-006","tapeTranscriptFile":"195a.mp3","transcript":[{"start":1842.59,"end":1850.38,"text":"Would you tell them that we will see you at 2 o'clock?"},{"start":1850.54,"end":1851.21,"text":"At 2 o'clock?"},{"start":1851.23,"end":1851.88,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":1852.71,"end":1853.3,"text":"Hello."},{"start":1853.36,"end":1857.02,"text":"Hi, let me know when you're driven to New York."},{"start":1858.42,"end":1858.76,"text":"Fine."},{"start":1875.18,"end":1876.14,"text":"Good, good."},{"start":1877.58,"end":1878.7,"text":"Might as well lay it out there."},{"start":1883.68,"end":1887.13,"text":"Well, what do we have yet about the organization next week?"},{"start":1887.33,"end":1897.73,"text":"No, yeah, yeah."},{"start":1897.75,"end":1899.21,"text":"New horses, what'd you say, with what?"},{"start":1907.42,"end":1908.54,"text":"Okay, well, that's fine."},{"start":1909.16,"end":1917.47,"text":"It's both public and private."},{"start":1917.51,"end":1918.39,"text":"That's good."},{"start":1918.41,"end":1920.55,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":1920.61,"end":1924.29,"text":"It's fine."},{"start":1927.49,"end":1933.64,"text":"Oh, Jesus."},{"start":1933.72,"end":1935.4,"text":"Yeah, yeah."},{"start":1940.61,"end":1950.24,"text":"It may perhaps go in order to beef up their position with regard to the, you know, he'll be just like Tony Lewis Henry, right, all that bullshit."},{"start":1950.3,"end":1962.19,"text":"On the other hand, Kraft may not go so far as Lewis in assuring him that whatever's going to win and that sort of thing."},{"start":1964.04,"end":1969.54,"text":"Breyer, well, that's probably just in his dishonest way, a little more honest."},{"start":1969.9,"end":1970.46,"text":"You know what I mean?"},{"start":1972.06,"end":1976.24,"text":"He wants them to win, but he isn't going to give them the crap, because he doesn't want to look that bad."},{"start":1976.28,"end":1978.64,"text":"Lewis is basically just a whore."},{"start":1981.62,"end":1986.25,"text":"I thought the announcement played well."},{"start":1986.31,"end":1993.53,"text":"You know, the main thing is that the draft team thing is, you know, the number is irrelevant."},{"start":1998.48,"end":2008.29,"text":"Well, look, by the time September comes, we'll say what we want, because then it's got to be a residual of the event, so we'll have to decide what the hell it is, and that's that."},{"start":2008.31,"end":2019.14,"text":"I don't see any casualties this weekend, too, so that's about... Can't go any lower."},{"start":2019.26,"end":2023.26,"text":"Of course, I suppose the MIAs are higher because of the aircraft, possibly."},{"start":2025.41,"end":2027.61,"text":"The other hand, they're there when I see them."},{"start":2028.17,"end":2031.39,"text":"How does that Quantree thing was kicked off a pretty good bank apparently."},{"start":2033.97,"end":2034.39,"text":"They are."},{"start":2034.81,"end":2036.43,"text":"Well, they shipped my husband a 152."},{"start":2036.6,"end":2039.7,"text":"That's like, that's a bigger artillery barrage."},{"start":2040.48,"end":2041.64,"text":"They had it for a ton."},{"start":2042.48,"end":2044.46,"text":"Gee, the ski rides, just think of it."},{"start":2047.34,"end":2051.61,"text":"Cracking a do, I don't know, there's bound to be something to give."},{"start":2052.47,"end":2053.17,"text":"If they'll just go."},{"start":2056.42,"end":2064.07,"text":"That's what we want, to go to the ceasefire."},{"start":2064.13,"end":2078.48,"text":"We're not going to be home free, but as for our purposes, because, look, if you get anything that is past the election in the way of a ceasefire, then let them squeal about the war."},{"start":2078.5,"end":2080.72,"text":"Who the hell is going to believe it?"},{"start":2080.76,"end":2082.86,"text":"It's going to be hard for them to squeal about it even now."},{"start":2212.67,"end":2213.47,"text":"I got your stuff."},{"start":2213.51,"end":2215.13,"text":"It came up."},{"start":2215.15,"end":2216.21,"text":"I got it for you."},{"start":2216.23,"end":2217.99,"text":"So we're all set on that."},{"start":2218.01,"end":2221.11,"text":"And I'll keep the lines just like that."},{"start":2221.13,"end":2226.12,"text":"Yeah, I think if Crabb goes, you ought to have a talk with him before, I mean, and just put it right into it."},{"start":2226.22,"end":2227.68,"text":"I'd be very tough with him."},{"start":2228.3,"end":2230.86,"text":"I'd say, now, Joe, do you want this war to end or not?"},{"start":2230.9,"end":2232.98,"text":"So just forget everything else."},{"start":2233.1,"end":2234.92,"text":"And then why don't you put out a little of the effect?"},{"start":2234.98,"end":2235.76,"text":"Well, look here."},{"start":2237.43,"end":2246.52,"text":"you realize that we now have the responsibility for prolonging the war."},{"start":2246.56,"end":2249.95,"text":"I want you to put that line out."},{"start":2249.97,"end":2255.77,"text":"Don't you think so?"},{"start":2257.21,"end":2258.47,"text":"Well, you could point out that no."},{"start":2259.59,"end":2288.58,"text":"ready to go and what he says is i i think you can play with his ego that what he tells them can have an enormous effect but if he gives them encouragement oh also drop in the fact that you know i just want you to know that we're here this man is still present with regards to the families for january the 20th let's let him have that i don't want him to think that just that the election is because they'll come there all all those are are allowed after the november 7th regardless"},{"start":2289.87,"end":2297.89,"text":"I think it's just so he doesn't go over there with the bullshit that the attack will now just hang on, the police are coming on, the young people are pouring."},{"start":2298.65,"end":2300.57,"text":"You can beat Nixon and then you'll be free."},{"start":2301.07,"end":2303.95,"text":"That's the totally unpatriotic thing to do."},{"start":2304.56,"end":2306,"text":"Also, isn't he interested in Israel?"},{"start":2307.24,"end":2307.62,"text":"Correct."},{"start":2309.1,"end":2315.6,"text":"Well, if he is, you can point out how the hell can we do it without an actual defense?"},{"start":2315.78,"end":2318,"text":"Yeah, well, that's the main thing."},{"start":2318.04,"end":2318.3,"text":"Okay."},{"start":2320.26,"end":2327.83,"text":"Yeah, well."},{"start":2327.99,"end":2330.13,"text":"Well, let me say, let me say, I've got to get the credit."},{"start":2330.45,"end":2335.07,"text":"But I mean, we cannot let, we cannot let Peterson take this from us unless it's over there first."},{"start":2335.93,"end":2337.59,"text":"And Peterson, what the hell?"},{"start":2337.91,"end":2339.77,"text":"He's going to get a chance at the second thing."},{"start":2339.79,"end":2340.57,"text":"Are you even hearing about this?"},{"start":2340.59,"end":2341.43,"text":"Who's going to get credit?"},{"start":2342.45,"end":2345.55,"text":"God damn it, what the hell's the matter with these people?"},{"start":2345.57,"end":2348.02,"text":"They had it occur to neither of them that I have to get the credit."},{"start":2351.87,"end":2364.14,"text":"I think after is better."},{"start":2364.18,"end":2366.74,"text":"Let's drop everything in there and just wham it right in."},{"start":2366.82,"end":2370.29,"text":"I think on the way back from California I could stop at the Midwest and make peace."},{"start":2371.69,"end":2372.55,"text":"That's what I prefer."},{"start":2373.41,"end":2374.51,"text":"If we can hold it till then."},{"start":2375.25,"end":2376.67,"text":"Alright, that's the way we'll go."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":1848,"end":2692,"startMethod":"llm-alignment","endMethod":"llm-alignment"},"transcriptConfidence":"high","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss strategies for managing media coverage of the Vietnam War and orchestrating a potential ceasefire. They specifically analyze how to influence columnist Joe Kraft, intending to pressure him to frame the opposition as responsible for prolonging the war rather than the administration. The President emphasizes that any diplomatic breakthrough or ceasefire must ensure he receives full political credit, specifically instructing Kissinger to manage perceptions of authority leading up to the election.","topics":["Vietnam War","Ceasefire negotiations","Media management","Joe Kraft","1972 election"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T09:59:57.233Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","ceasefire-negotiations","media-management","joe-kraft","1972-election"],"audioDurationSec":847,"audioFiles":[{"file":"195-005-splice.mp3","bytes":13521270,"durationSec":846.99,"bitrate":127710,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:23.970Z","originalFilename":["195a.mp3"],"spliceSource":{"spliceType":"bigtape","sourceFiles":["195a.mp3"],"cutStart":1846.5,"cutEnd":2693.5,"adjustedStart":1846.5,"adjustedEnd":2693.5,"boundaryMethod":"llm-alignment","confidence":"high","splicedAt":"2026-09-18T14:10:23.970Z"},"transcriptPrev":{"segments":79,"replacedAt":"2026-09-18T08:55:42.328Z"},"audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/195-005-splice.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/195-005","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/195/conversation-195-005","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}