Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 196-030
Date: Sunday, July 23, 1972 at 3:08 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: Camp David Hard Wire
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/196-030

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hello?
[0:03] You in Washington?
[0:05] Yeah.
[0:06] Oh yeah, they told me it's hotter than hell down there.
[0:09] It's even warmer than, uh, Camp David today.
[0:16] The problem is, was it really, uh, was it alright sitting outside?
[0:22] I would think it would be pretty warm.
[0:22] Not too bad, huh?
[0:26] Yeah.
[0:26] Around the pool, that's right.
[0:27] Yeah, yeah.
[0:40] Oh, I mean, it's a range.
[0:57] It's just one of those things.
[0:58] That's the very first analysis.
[0:59] The information is that it should be off, you know, in a while, rather than off, because I think we've got to have two hotels.
[1:02] We can't be in the same hotel.
[1:03] So we've got to go back and forth.
[1:22] You know, there's always got to be that little business.
[1:23] Otherwise, it's just going to work out in other places.
[1:24] And also, it would look, too, as if we didn't want it there.
[1:26] That's the other thing.
[1:26] And he'll be well-received.
[1:27] I'm thinking that about 35% of all the people in Hawaii have got this background.
[1:28] 30 years ago, we got one of his disciples.
[1:32] He was very old then.
[1:33] Yeah, at most.
[1:42] Yeah.
[1:42] Again, the problem with the ambassador, but there again, he doesn't know that kind of opinion, and of course there has to be a direct channel.
[1:51] But we have to have a direct channel, that's not something that's illegal in places.
[1:53] One thing that is, of course, important to us, I told everybody that I want to, if they do, are able to make an arrangement on this, you know, this trade path to whatever it is.
[2:16] If it does work out, which I hope it does, that should be held before the meeting so we've got something positive to come out of the meeting rather than just getting to know you, you see.
[2:20] And I just hope that this can be back around about 26 and so forth in November and our array.
[2:22] Well, it'll be hard.
[2:35] Yeah.
[2:35] Give him.
[2:36] Sure.
[2:40] That's all right.
[2:41] He got hurt in the Italian convention.
[2:45] Yeah.
[2:46] That's all right.
[2:46] In other words, he can't come at all.
[2:47] Just to show that we're not ignoring the attendance.
[2:48] Explore having the President of Italy, but having him in the September period.
[2:50] What we don't need is a defeat.
[3:19] That's the plan.
[3:21] Okay, I think we can talk to him about it.
[3:26] Yeah.
[3:26] He says we should.
[3:33] Well, then, uh, it has to be put to him very directly.
[3:36] We can't have, well, we can't handle what would appear to be a defeat, even though it isn't going to be that bad, but it'll be blown up like hell over here if they, uh, um, uh, I don't know.
[3:49] And I think, you mean they withdraw from Quantree City, of course that's, well, that's army.
[4:09] That's better.
[4:09] That's exactly what they ought to do.
[4:13] The other side would do what they ought to do.
[4:14] The Allies did it, the Battle of the Bulge, too.
[4:17] I mean, the Germans went ahead and they cut in behind them.
[4:20] It's a classic military maneuver, everybody knows that.
[4:28] Well, I would, time's a-wasting.
[4:39] I'm sure you got away from the warning.
[4:40] Have you?
[4:40] Yeah, all right.
[4:41] Well, there's nothing more important than not to have, first, it's important to our negotiations, and it's important to the reaction of Americans here.
[4:46] They can get damn discouraged with this war.
[4:48] if we, if they, if the press out there, which they will inevitably try to do, build something and do a big band of heat, you know, and that sort of thing.
[5:12] Now, I assume, of course, that they're, it makes sense for us to do a pound and a half out of them with the air power and so forth, so they must be, hopefully they can avoid it after the withdrawal.
[5:16] I called him about it last night.
[5:18] And then I said, how about this?
[5:36] And he said, well, as of the present time, the attacks have been greatly exaggerated by the press.
[5:38] But on the other hand, on the other hand, I said, now you're going to just watch it, because we just, I just used the term, we can take a retreat, we can't take a defeat.
[5:41] That's the point.
[5:42] A retreat is no problem.
[5:42] I mean, particularly if it's, you know, you don't do it in any way.
[5:44] I think that as far as that's concerned, that's why they're all bright guys.
[6:01] Why the hell don't they think of this?
[6:06] Well, for Christ's sakes, we didn't tell them to pick one tree.
[6:09] Huh?
[6:11] No, that's not hard.
[6:16] I mean, that's the Jew's idea, of course.
[6:29] He wants to regain it.
[6:29] But in terms of the negotiating position, I think that's what we say.
[6:31] We want to get in the military in terms of the negotiating position.
[6:33] The important thing is not to have a significant amount of success at this point.
[6:34] They cannot have us just put it squarely on that.
[6:35] We've got to wireline it to that effect.
[6:36] We've discussed it.
[6:37] Let's get it moving a little faster than we, you know, for the time molasses gets through the bureaucracy and what we...
[6:41] So let's just let it go.
[7:01] In fact, you're going to put the monkey in his back.
[7:03] So he'll reconsider this.
[7:03] You know, it's half all of it.
[7:04] It's not going to last.
[7:04] It's not going to be for the withdrawals and the like.
[7:05] But we've got the responsibility.
[7:07] there, they get exactly what they're doing here.
[7:11] Remember they outran themselves.
[7:13] They were going to one of those damn towns we were trying to take to Poland, remember?
[7:19] They threw everything in there.
[7:19] That was a stupid thing to do, wasn't it?
[7:23] They say we're a lot better off now than we were then.
[7:29] We were in concentration.
[7:30] We were fighting hell at the time of Lansau.
[7:32] We were fighting all over the place.
[7:33] We were fighting in Laos.
[7:35] We were fighting in Cambodia.
[7:37] Huh?
[7:38] Yeah.
[7:42] Yeah.
[7:42] But there we were just piddling it all away, you know, just to give it to them.
[7:50] But now they are, there's no question there, there's no question of what it is, putting it in where it matters and not going just for the non-crime strategy.
[7:58] That's right.
[7:59] You're checking a, because I'm not going to look at these, you know, I don't count the surgeons every day, but you and Hank have got to do that.
[8:06] And if it ever changes, I want to know.
[8:10] Yeah, yeah, that's great, that's great.
[8:31] Sure, that's great, that's very short.
[8:32] I'm feeling that it may not be as, I think it may not be as bad as the quality of that dam that I need.
[8:34] Well, I may come back and say, look, we can do it.
[8:36] If he does, fine.
[8:36] That's right, that's right.
[8:37] We're not trying to make the family, we are saying, look,
[8:39] based on negotiations, the effect of negotiations, that we do not want to defeat at this point in the effect on the American support, and that's the important thing.
[9:03] It's okay to defeat, avoid, which we can, good God.
[9:04] The defense can always avoid a defeat, if they have a will.
[9:05] What's the weather factor up there?
[9:06] Is that going to become a
[9:08] Yeah, so they'll have a hell of a time putting on a major event after September 15th, probably.
[9:32] Under October, in other words.
[9:33] They're going to have a hell of a time for another event.
[9:34] They're shooting their rod now.
[9:35] Commander Thompson said that it made a very perceptive remark when he first began.
[9:36] He said that the enemy had launched.
[9:37] That's too late.
[9:38] Uh, for military purposes.
[9:49] Too early for political purposes.
[9:56] Huh?
[9:56] It may be that that's true, that it's too late for military purposes, but it's too early for the election.
[9:58] They're launching for a very different reason.
[9:59] They were launching it to affect that social climate.
[10:00] Follow up and let me know tomorrow, will you?
[10:02] All right.
[10:02] Get a little rest.
[10:03] Bye.