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Conversation 197-012

TapeTape 197StartSaturday, July 22, 1972 at 2:37 PMEndSaturday, July 22, 1972 at 2:44 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ziegler, Ronald L.Recording deviceCamp David Hard Wire
AudioNARA Description

On July 22, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 2:37 pm to 2:44 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 197-012 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 197-012
Date: July 22, 1972
Time: 2:37 pm - 2:44 pm
Page | 7
White House Tapes of the Nixon Administration, 1971-1973
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
Location: Camp David Hard Wire
The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.
[See Conversation No. 136-9]
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

So, how did the, how did he exit?
You see if he has an alarm?
12 minutes?
That's enough.
Why don't you, why don't you call him?
He don't have it yet.
Call him.
Oh, fine.
He didn't say.
That's rather good that you're stating that.
That gives me...
He may not in any event.
You can get that out when he makes his speeches now.
We'll be watching closely.
I think it's handled all right.
Your thing went right well.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
I think McGregor also might say the issues, the gulf between these two are so great, the differences between these two are so great that they don't need a debate to bring them out.
How's that sound to you?
They're so clear.
They're so clear on defense, on the other ground, on domestic policy, on economic policy.
They're so great.
They need a great turnabout.
It's certainly interesting.
The country, particularly at this time, very important negotiations are taking place involving matters of very great parts of the nation and which cannot be discussed today.
should not be discussed in the debate forum.
You ought to say that for the nation's interest to not be served.
I think it's good for him to just crack it.
I think we may as well get the debate thing out of the way now, and if they ought to suspend 315, let him squeal about anything.
Of course, having a debate would concern me a bit, because this guy doesn't have any, he doesn't have any flair at all.
I'm giving him a lot of free time.
Well, it isn't just a prestige.
I don't want to give him all that.
I just want to give him all that coverage.
You know, on prime time.
Let him get his own prime time.
But I think that's a very good thing to do.
Very good thing to do.
You can save him.
Yeah.
He's totally...
He's totally wrong about that.
And then they asked more about the fact that the president wasn't supported.
He said, well, the president was then a candidate.
But then he was on the other side.
Now having served in the presidency and so forth.
But particularly at this time, there's no time to have this.
And also because the differences are so great between the two candidates.
I think that's it.
Look, the differences between these two candidates are so clear and so great
and that no debate is necessary to point them up to the American people.
The issues will be fully discussed, but that no debate is necessary to point up those sentences.
And also, a second point, a debate would not serve the national interest.
That's pastoral, and particularly at a time, as is the present time, when international developments are of a very, very high sensitivity.
are going on which the President cannot and should not discuss in a debate.
And the matters in which, of course, the opposition candidate will be briefed on which cannot be discussed in a debate.
Okay?
All right, good.
Thank you.
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