{"conversationCode":"197-016","tapeNumber":197,"conversationNumber":16,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-197-016","startDateTime":"1972-07-22T18:47:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-07-22T19:05:00.000Z","startDate":"22-Jul-1972","startTime":"2:47 PM","endDate":"22-Jul-1972","endTime":"3:05 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Camp David Operator;","description":"On July 22, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 2:47 pm and 3:05 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 197-016 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDHW","recordingDevice":"Camp David Hard Wire","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 197-016\n\nDate: July 22, 1972\nTime: Unknown between 2:47 pm and 3:05 pm\nLocation: Camp David Hard Wire\n\nThe President dictated a memorandum.\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 09/25/2019.\nSegment cleared for release.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[197-016-w001]\n[Duration: 2m]\n\n       1972 election\n              -Presidential debates\n              -Ronald L. Ziegler\n              -Clark MacGregor\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n                      -George S. McGovern request\n                               -The President’s participation in repeal of Section 315\n                               -Vote on Section 315\n                               -Lyndon B. Johnson\n                      -Differences between the two candidates\n                               -Render debate unnecessary\n                      -1964\n               -Foreign policy issues\n                      -Potential debate subjects\n                               -The President’s opinion\n                      -Sensitivity of international negotiations\n                      -Intelligence\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nCamp David operator talked with the President.\n\n[Conversation No. 197-16A]\n\n[See Conversation No. 136-13]\n\nThe President resumed dictation at an unknown time between 3:05 and 3:57 pm.\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 09/26/2019.\nSegment cleared for release.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[197-016-w002]\n[Duration: 5m 56s]\n\n       The President's schedule\n              -Previous wedding of Dabney Jane Hibbert and Barry Wayne Feather\n                      -The President’s opinion\n                      -Church\n                             -The President’s description\n                             -Minister\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n                       -Tricia Nixon Cox\n                               -Dress\n                       -Barry Wayne Feather\n                               -Cousins [?]\n                               -Previous visit to the President's California house\n                               -Shoe shining\n\n       Spiro T. Agnew\n              -The President's announcement\n                     -Low-key\n              -Answers to attacks\n\n       Life magazine\n              -Pictures\n                      -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon\n\n       Bobby Fischer\n             -Supporter of the President\n                     -The President’s description\n                            -Introverted\n             -Family background\n                     -Death of mother\n\n       The President's family schedule\n              -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon\n                      -Water ballets\n                      -Previous trip to California\n                      -Julie Nixon Eisenhower and Tricia Nixon Cox\n                      -J. Edgar Hoover\n              -Previous trip to Africa\n              -Previous trip to Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]\n              -Tricia Nixon Cox's and Julie Nixon Eisenhower's previous collaboration\n                      -Parts\n                              -Cinderella and Prince Charming\n                              -Cinderella’s stepsisters\n              -Cats\n                      -The President’s opinion\n                      -Tricia Nixon Cox and Julie Nixon Eisenhower\n                              -Kittens\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n               -Unknown person’s health\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n[The memorandum continues as Conversation No. 197-18]","filename":["197-016.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Camp David Operator"],"prevCode":"197-015","nextCode":"197-017","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":25.43,"text":"Mm-hmm."},{"start":26.41,"end":52.95,"text":"."},{"start":52.97,"end":52.99,"text":"."},{"start":54.2,"end":78.99,"text":"And also,"},{"start":79.31,"end":102.8,"text":"to find out the differences between the two candidates were so clear and so great they didn't need a new debate."},{"start":102.81,"end":103.7,"text":"They did not need a debate to find them out."},{"start":103.72,"end":104.72,"text":"And that he should also find out that they didn't."},{"start":104.74,"end":106.46,"text":"I spent a little bit of time in 1964, and in the presidency, my views perhaps changed."},{"start":106.48,"end":107.68,"text":"The fact that there were U.S. and international negotiations"},{"start":108.11,"end":133.26,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":133.28,"end":133.38,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":133.4,"end":133.5,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":137.36,"end":160.24,"text":"No, I'll tell you, just let it go."},{"start":160.26,"end":161.24,"text":"You can say that it is convenient any time today."},{"start":161.26,"end":162,"text":"You can call me, but it's not urgent."},{"start":162.02,"end":162.42,"text":"That is convenience."},{"start":162.44,"end":162.64,"text":"Very nice."},{"start":162.66,"end":162.86,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":164.93,"end":187.93,"text":"which the minister reminded me was actually a church and was there before the temple was built."},{"start":187.95,"end":188.4,"text":"It's a beautiful room."},{"start":188.41,"end":188.74,"text":"It's just right."},{"start":188.75,"end":189.46,"text":"So I told the minister, no worries."},{"start":189.48,"end":191.06,"text":"And since she came in late and could not have a price, they dressed me for her."},{"start":191.08,"end":192.12,"text":"She wore her own clothes, but they fitted perfectly."},{"start":192.14,"end":193.22,"text":"So they honored us on robes and wear the same clothes."},{"start":193.81,"end":218.36,"text":"dresses the bridesmaid in any event."},{"start":218.38,"end":221.21,"text":"I was impressed by the two of the grooms, two of the twins, and Rebecca's cousins, and I said that they had seen this in our California home."},{"start":221.23,"end":222.07,"text":"One of them asked her and saw her looking."},{"start":222.09,"end":222.87,"text":"She had remembered the time that he had"},{"start":223.79,"end":247.17,"text":"I got the rug, the white rug in our house in Truesdale, soiled it, because you have to shine the shoes before coming over."},{"start":247.19,"end":248.31,"text":"And there's some of the shoes shining more over the rug."},{"start":248.33,"end":250.23,"text":"So I went down and asked them, and I took that picture with Richard, and started to stop there."},{"start":250.25,"end":252,"text":"And of course, I said, well, I'm going to comment at the wedding about it, and took it."},{"start":253.81,"end":277.96,"text":"I tried to keep the announcement as low key as possible on our part so that anyone would make the most of its response."},{"start":277.98,"end":279.82,"text":"I like the idea that the city was going to campaign to judge states to pay money for credit."},{"start":279.84,"end":281.56,"text":"I'm sorry, I didn't answer any of your personal questions earlier in the presentation."},{"start":283.55,"end":308.2,"text":"We had pictures taken for the Life magazine."},{"start":308.22,"end":308.56,"text":"Covered in a hat."},{"start":308.58,"end":309.1,"text":"He had seen Bobby Fischer."},{"start":309.12,"end":309.66,"text":"He was a supporter of ours."},{"start":309.68,"end":310.54,"text":"He said Bobby was actually a very nice man."},{"start":310.56,"end":311.35,"text":"He was extremely quiet and introverted."},{"start":311.37,"end":311.88,"text":"He had a very poor family."},{"start":311.9,"end":312.31,"text":"His mother was dead."},{"start":313.42,"end":335.47,"text":"."},{"start":335.49,"end":335.51,"text":"."},{"start":335.53,"end":335.55,"text":"."},{"start":335.57,"end":335.59,"text":"."},{"start":336.21,"end":352.24,"text":"There you go."},{"start":352.26,"end":354.21,"text":"And recall that you were talking in the play instead of the kitchen until the end of the episode."},{"start":354.74,"end":372.07,"text":"and the water ballet that they put on in California in January was president."},{"start":372.09,"end":373.45,"text":"And I felt that he was going to need to be after our trip to Africa."},{"start":373.47,"end":374.32,"text":"I think we were going to get to the house."},{"start":374.34,"end":375.64,"text":"Actually, it turned out it was after our trip to the Philippines."},{"start":376.93,"end":401.52,"text":"We had our invitations and programs ended up leaving by that time and purchased a regulation small video crew for it."},{"start":401.54,"end":403.08,"text":"Larry, Paul, and Julie and Christian were collaborating and writing the play."},{"start":403.11,"end":403.75,"text":"And Julie was a very great bird."},{"start":403.77,"end":404.65,"text":"The play came out all night after that trip."},{"start":404.67,"end":405.61,"text":"But for most of the people in the neighborhood,"},{"start":406.95,"end":432.2,"text":"and the Cinderella that we called, she played Cinderella, Julia played the prince, Tricia played the step-sister."},{"start":432.22,"end":434.3,"text":"And her half-sister, and Tricia corrected me by saying her half-sister is probably the good step-sister."},{"start":434.32,"end":435.24,"text":"Oh, the iconics and the girls used to do that."},{"start":435.74,"end":456.37,"text":"collect things around the neighborhood."},{"start":456.38,"end":457.33,"text":"And then many of those things are in the house."},{"start":457.35,"end":459.25,"text":"So the money we get from the Red Cross, on one occasion, we made $4 for this kind of a project."},{"start":459.27,"end":460.67,"text":"Also, we have to treat a lot of times those kids in a different house."},{"start":460.69,"end":463.03,"text":"And rather than going through the dead ends and having to dispose of them otherwise, we put out a sign for your kids."},{"start":463.05,"end":463.79,"text":"And within a day, they were all gone."},{"start":467.72,"end":488.93,"text":"I'm very well."},{"start":488.95,"end":489.43,"text":"I'm feeling much warmer."},{"start":489.45,"end":490.68,"text":"So this morning and last night, we obviously were very tired."},{"start":491.23,"end":510.18,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon held this brief call with a Camp David operator to manage communication logistics during his stay at Aspen Lodge. The conversation primarily involved confirming the status of non-urgent incoming calls and verifying that his availability remained flexible for the day. No substantive policy or political decisions were made during the interaction.","topics":["Camp David","Communications logistics","Presidential scheduling"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T10:05:52.096Z"},"topicSlugs":["camp-david","communications-logistics","presidential-scheduling"],"audioDurationSec":510,"audioFiles":[{"file":"197-016.mp3","bytes":20411873,"durationSec":510.15,"bitrate":320093,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:35.863Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:02.501Z","transcriptGapSeconds":434,"transcriptGapShare":0.85,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/197-016.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/197-016","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/197/conversation-197-016","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}