{"conversationCode":"212-004","tapeNumber":212,"conversationNumber":4,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-212-004","startDateTime":"1972-09-19T23:46:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-09-20T00:10:00.000Z","startDate":"19-Sep-1972","startTime":"7:46 PM","endDate":"19-Sep-1972","endTime":"8:10 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On September 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 7:46 pm to 8:10 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 212-004 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDHW","recordingDevice":"Camp David Hard Wire","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 212-4\n\nDate: September 19, 1972\nTime: 7:46 pm - 8:10 pm\nLocation: Camp David Hard Wire\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n[See Conversation no. 144-2; two items have been withdrawn from this conversation]","filename":["212-004.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"212-003","nextCode":"212-005","transcript":[{"start":0.28,"end":0.84,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":3.01,"end":5.11,"text":"Did you get home?"},{"start":5.13,"end":27.27,"text":"Yeah, well, are you having dinner, I guess, huh?"},{"start":27.29,"end":27.53,"text":"That's good."},{"start":27.55,"end":29.01,"text":"They'll have to serve."},{"start":30.88,"end":34.48,"text":"We've got to carry hard on that."},{"start":34.5,"end":39.33,"text":"Anybody who has deserted his country and served, I mean, he's got to pay the penalty."},{"start":39.35,"end":42.79,"text":"Who's the word?"},{"start":42.81,"end":42.97,"text":"Penalty."},{"start":42.99,"end":48.02,"text":"He doesn't, but he says that to us."},{"start":48.04,"end":48.14,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":48.16,"end":60.19,"text":"We've got to say that even when they're all home and the war is over, they've got to pay the penalty for having deserted their country."},{"start":60.21,"end":60.45,"text":"The penalty."},{"start":60.47,"end":60.73,"text":"That's right."},{"start":61.19,"end":63.33,"text":"Try it Try it"}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss the political necessity of maintaining a hardline stance against Vietnam War draft evaders and deserters. They agree on the importance of demanding that these individuals face legal penalties for their actions, even after the war concludes. The conversation focuses on leveraging this rhetoric as a strategy to enforce patriotic standards and public accountability.","topics":["Vietnam War","draft evaders","deserters","political messaging","public policy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T10:29:52.047Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","draft-evaders","deserters","political-messaging","public-policy"],"audioDurationSec":79,"audioFiles":[{"file":"212-004.mp3","bytes":1899623,"durationSec":79.09,"bitrate":192139,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:35.865Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/212-004.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/212-004","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/212/conversation-212-004","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}