{"conversationCode":"213-010","tapeNumber":213,"conversationNumber":10,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-213-010","startDateTime":"1972-09-23T21:32:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-09-23T21:59:00.000Z","startDate":"23-Sep-1972","startTime":"5:32 PM","endDate":"23-Sep-1972","endTime":"5:59 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On September 23, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 5:32 pm to 5:59 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 213-010 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDHW","recordingDevice":"Camp David Hard Wire","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 213-10\n\nDate: September 23, 1972\nTime: 5:32 pm - 5:59 pm\nLocation: Camp David Hard Wire\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n[See Conversation no. 154-5; three items have been withdrawn from this conversation]","filename":["213-010.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"213-009","nextCode":"213-011","transcript":[{"start":12.15,"end":18.91,"text":"and I deliberately got into some of the foreign policy and the embassy stuff and so forth, because they need to hear that."},{"start":19.03,"end":22.3,"text":"I mean, they believe that, and we just may as well lay that out there."},{"start":23.32,"end":27.76,"text":"We'll get McGovern talking about it."},{"start":27.78,"end":32.19,"text":"What can he say about it?"},{"start":32.21,"end":35.83,"text":"He'll say, well, we'll have them work in a peace corps."},{"start":35.85,"end":36.63,"text":"Uh-uh."},{"start":37.05,"end":37.17,"text":"Uh-uh."},{"start":37.19,"end":38.19,"text":"Sir, hell no."},{"start":38.83,"end":41.4,"text":"These poor bastards have got chuffed from working in a peace corps."},{"start":42.02,"end":46.11,"text":"No."},{"start":46.17,"end":51.4,"text":"Either that or change his position."},{"start":51.42,"end":55.33,"text":"He'll come to school."},{"start":55.35,"end":56.83,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":56.85,"end":58.44,"text":"That's what they feel you meant, don't they?"},{"start":71.58,"end":77.89,"text":"You know, Julie was saying that she'd heard McGovern say that he's not for legalizing marijuana."},{"start":77.91,"end":78.85,"text":"And I said, what did he say?"},{"start":78.87,"end":80.45,"text":"He said, well, he wants to be like alcohol."},{"start":80.47,"end":82.39,"text":"I said, that's legalizing it."},{"start":82.41,"end":82.95,"text":"Alcohol is illegal."},{"start":82.97,"end":92.42,"text":"You know, I don't even get off of that view."},{"start":92.59,"end":98.11,"text":"Actually, I am for modification of penalties in many areas, but I don't talk about it anymore."},{"start":103.17,"end":106.02,"text":"I know, on TV time, haven't we?"},{"start":106.03,"end":106.36,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":108.22,"end":110.96,"text":"Right."},{"start":110.98,"end":126.02,"text":"It's got to be, upon emphasis, we've all got to be exactly the same."},{"start":126.04,"end":130.54,"text":"And we've got to say, as what I said there, that people who deserve must pay up heavily."},{"start":130.79,"end":136.14,"text":"use the word penalty so that it doesn't look like they're just going to come back, you know, because, and they should."},{"start":136.97,"end":139.53,"text":"I mean, it's wrong for anybody to come back."},{"start":139.55,"end":150.03,"text":"They're going to come back, as Lincoln said, I thought they could serve a number of days they're out of the country in prison."},{"start":150.05,"end":155.58,"text":"They ought to take away their citizenship."},{"start":155.6,"end":156.3,"text":"Why shouldn't we?"},{"start":160.33,"end":161.31,"text":"All right, right?"},{"start":167.03,"end":168.8,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":168.82,"end":168.92,"text":"Good."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss campaign strategies to challenge George McGovern’s positions on amnesty for Vietnam War draft evaders and the legalization of marijuana. Nixon emphasizes the need for a unified administration stance that advocates for strict penalties and the potential revocation of citizenship for those who fled the country. By framing these issues as moral and legal imperatives, the two aim to pressure McGovern into an unpopular position that will alienate moderate voters.","topics":["1972 Presidential Campaign","George McGovern","Amnesty","Vietnam War draft evaders","Marijuana legalization","Political strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T10:31:13.855Z"},"topicSlugs":["1972-presidential-campaign","george-mcgovern","amnesty","vietnam-war-draft-evaders","marijuana-legalization","political-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":185,"audioFiles":[{"file":"213-010.mp3","bytes":4437471,"durationSec":184.84,"bitrate":192056,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:36.204Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/213-010.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/213-010","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/213/conversation-213-010","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}