Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 213 › Conversation 213-019

Nixon phone call with Colson on Amnesty and 1972 Presidential Election

Sunday, September 24, 1972 · 11:56 AM–12:46 PM ET · Camp David Hard Wire · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation213-019 on Tape 213StartSunday, September 24, 1972 at 11:56 AMEndSunday, September 24, 1972 at 12:46 PMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 213-019 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 651228260 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discussed campaign strategy and public perception ahead of the 1972 election, focusing on the political advantages of maintaining a firm stance against amnesty for Vietnam War draft evaders. They also strategized on how to frame the administration’s response to Larry O'Brien’s complaints about network airtime by emphasizing that network decisions are independent. Additionally, Nixon highlighted the importance of appealing to blue-collar voters and the "silent majority" through decisive executive actions, such as his planned veto of a water bill, while dismissing the long-term electoral impact of minor controversies like Watergate.

Audio

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NARA Description

On September 24, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 11:56 am to 12:46 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 213-019 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 213-19

Date: September 24, 1972
Time: 11:56 am - 12:46 pm
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation no. 154-9; two items have been withdrawn from this conversation]

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 2 minutes of this recording (about 24% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Well, I was just looking at the front pages of papers, and I saw that picture in one of the papers of those little kids.
I guess it was a star.
I thought, well, that made the whole thing worthwhile, didn't it?
And just think of those little kids, what it's going to mean to them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I saw the first part of it, yeah.
Yeah.
Laid it out the way we want it.
Keep it clean.
I mean, the whole point is, yes, they can have it, but they must serve, they must pay the penalty for having left the country.
Well, that's the way it is.
That's the way it's always been, you know.
Yeah.
Well, they're getting to the moral and immoral war crap.
That's what it really is.
Did anybody talk of amnesty, basically, for World War II deserters?
Not really.
Oh, we thought that most people thought particularly of the Jewish press.
They should all be shot.
Am I right?
Well, I'm saying things.
What was that?
You've told me that O'Brien filed this complaint.
Why the hell didn't he file it at the time that the networks made this decision months and months ago?
There's no question here.
The networks are being very fair in this respect.
I mean, you can buy time, can't you?
But...
That's right.
I don't want him.
Yeah.
Why don't you tell them to give it to him?
Can they?
Wait a minute.
Why doesn't Dole say he has no objection?
That would be right on their back.
Get Dole to say, I have no objection, whatever, to their selling him time.
He says this is a decision on their part.
And we have no objection whatever the networks want to sell them, Tom.
We want them to have every opportunity to present their case.
It's a network decision and we have nothing to do with it.
Be sure to get that across.
Good.
As little, I read as little as I can and get away with it.
Yeah?
No, I don't, I don't read.
One of those case by case measures were.
Christian.
16 Republicans.
Mm hmm.
You have a positive reason too.
It's seldom they put any of those in.
Come on, I know.
Yeah.
We don't care.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And when I veto the water bill, people will say, well, he's got the guts to do it.
These are working people that are going to get you too.
They don't really have reflexibility.
Yeah, whatever it is.
Well, it's, Chuck, what it's doing is it's getting to that Danbury asylum majority, too, that we've spoken about.
And it's getting away, if you're stupid enough, from that group, you know, that some of our people, particularly our intellectuals, why not some of the staff people?
They say, oh don't, you know, they've always said don't play with the Catholics, don't play with the blue collar, don't play with the attack, because they said the real votes are out there in those suburbs among the upper middle class, you know, the 15,000, 25,000, and so forth.
Well, my point is, we're doing as well there as we always do, and there ain't much better we can do.
And basically, a lot of those people are solid choppers.
They really are.
Am I right?
You see, if you thought only of those suburbs,
the water bill, right?
I would, I would soften amnesty.
I would, I would copper pot, you know, I would, I'd be, you know, that's exactly, you see, that's, that's, that's basically busting his devices and, and, and who knows, we don't want to appear to be
And you also want to remember, and all things are real in the summer, Chuck.
You've got to figure.
I don't care whether it's Watergate or whether it's the week.
People are not all that interested and sophisticated about it.
So that cuts you a couple points.
What's the difference?
That kind of erosion doesn't matter in an election.
It's like Johnson was probably hurt a little by the Bobby Baker thing and hurt a little by the Jenkins thing.
But it didn't matter that much.
That's right.
Here.

Also recorded on September 24, 1972

  • 154-007 11:37 AM · 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:37 am to 11:52 am.
  • 213-016 11:37 AM · 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 11:37 am to 11:52 am.
  • 154-008 11:52 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:52 am and 11:56 am.
  • 213-017 11:52 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:52 am and 11:56 am.
  • 213-018 11:52 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Julie Nixon Eisenhower, and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:52 am and 11:56 am.
  • 154-009 11:56 AM · 13 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:56 am to 12:46 pm.
  • 154-010 12:46 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 1:01 pm.
  • 213-020 12:46 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Julie Nixon Eisenhower met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 12:56 pm.

All 31 conversations from September 24, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 213-019, September 24, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 651228260). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/213-019 (accessed November 2, 2026).