Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 214 › Conversation 214-027

Kissinger & Zumwalt on Naval aviation and Military administration

Monday, October 2, 1972 · 5:03 PM–8:30 PM ET · Camp David Hard Wire · 59 sec

ParticipantsKissinger, Henry A.; Zumwalt, Adm. Elmo R., Jr.Conversation214-027 on Tape 214StartMonday, October 2, 1972 at 5:03 PMEndMonday, October 2, 1972 at 8:30 PMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 214-027 ↗

AI Summary

Henry Kissinger and Admiral Elmo Zumwalt discuss a workaround to address concerns regarding the operation of naval jets while providing a face-saving diplomatic solution. They explore designating the Navy as an executive agent for a separate organization to manage these aircraft. Ultimately, they weigh the feasibility of this arrangement against the possibility of abandoning the proposal entirely due to its administrative complexity.

  • Naval aviation
  • Military administration
  • Executive agency
  • Diplomatic strategy
  • Organizational structure

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

Hello?
Hello?
Yeah, join.
They're saying they don't really care who runs them as long as we give them some face-saving device so that they can call them non-Navy jets.
Give them another organization and make the Navy the executive agent for it.
It's just too difficult to do if it isn't big enough for you.
We may just have to drop the whole idea.
I appreciate you looking into it.
I could hope to see you and things ease up a bit in my frantic traveling.
Good, thank you.

NARA Description

On October 2, 1972, Henry A. Kissinger and Adm. Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr. met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:03 pm and 8:30 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 214-027 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 214-27

Date: October 2, 1972
Time: Unknown between 5:03 pm and 8:30 pm
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

Henry A. Kissinger talked with Adm. Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr.

[See Conversation No. 145-17]

Also recorded on October 2, 1972

  • 145-012 4:59 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 4:59 pm and 8:22 pm.
  • 145-013 4:59 PM · 16 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 4:59 pm and 8:22 pm.
  • 145-014 4:59 PM · 23 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 4:59 pm and 8:22 pm.
  • 145-015 4:59 PM · 17 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 4:59 pm and 8:22 pm.
  • 214-024 5:03 PM · 12 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:03 pm and 8:30 pm.
  • 214-025 5:03 PM · 28 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:03 pm and 8:30 pm.
  • 214-026 5:03 PM · 18 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:03 pm and 8:30 pm.
  • 214-028 5:03 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:03 pm and 8:30 pm.

All 44 conversations from October 2, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 214-027, October 2, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/214-027 (accessed October 12, 2026).