{"conversationCode":"214-027","tapeNumber":214,"conversationNumber":27,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-214-027","startDateTime":"1972-10-02T21:03:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-03T00:30:00.000Z","startDate":"2-Oct-1972","startTime":"5:03 PM","endDate":"2-Oct-1972","endTime":"8:30 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Kissinger, Henry A.; Zumwalt, Adm. Elmo R., Jr.;","description":"On October 2, 1972, Henry A. Kissinger and Adm. Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr. met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:03 pm and 8:30 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 214-027 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDHW","recordingDevice":"Camp David Hard Wire","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 214-27\n\nDate: October 2, 1972\nTime: Unknown between 5:03 pm and 8:30 pm\nLocation: Camp David Hard Wire\n\nHenry A. Kissinger talked with Adm. Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr.\n\n[See Conversation No. 145-17]","filename":["214-027.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Kissinger, Henry A.","Zumwalt, Adm. Elmo R., Jr."],"prevCode":"214-026","nextCode":"214-028","transcript":[{"start":0.64,"end":1.04,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":2.66,"end":3.66,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":3.68,"end":4.38,"text":"Yeah, join."},{"start":10.11,"end":18.09,"text":"They're saying they don't really care who runs them as long as we give them some face-saving device so that they can call them non-Navy jets."},{"start":18.17,"end":28.6,"text":"Give them another organization and make the Navy the executive agent for it."},{"start":33.16,"end":37.1,"text":"It's just too difficult to do if it isn't big enough for you."},{"start":37.12,"end":44.25,"text":"We may just have to drop the whole idea."},{"start":44.27,"end":47.54,"text":"I appreciate you looking into it."},{"start":47.56,"end":54.27,"text":"I could hope to see you and things ease up a bit in my frantic traveling."},{"start":54.29,"end":56.11,"text":"Good, thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"Henry Kissinger and Admiral Elmo Zumwalt discuss a workaround to address concerns regarding the operation of naval jets while providing a face-saving diplomatic solution. They explore designating the Navy as an executive agent for a separate organization to manage these aircraft. Ultimately, they weigh the feasibility of this arrangement against the possibility of abandoning the proposal entirely due to its administrative complexity.","topics":["Naval aviation","Military administration","Executive agency","Diplomatic strategy","Organizational structure"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T10:36:00.071Z"},"topicSlugs":["naval-aviation","military-administration","executive-agency","diplomatic-strategy","organizational-structure"],"audioDurationSec":59,"audioFiles":[{"file":"214-027.mp3","bytes":1415626,"durationSec":58.91,"bitrate":192253,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:36.204Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/214-027.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/214-027","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/214/conversation-214-027","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}