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Conversation 215-004

TapeTape 215StartWednesday, October 4, 1972 at 5:00 PMEndWednesday, October 4, 1972 at 5:30 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Sanchez, ManoloRecording deviceCamp David Hard Wire
AI Summary

President Nixon and H.R. Haldeman met at Camp David to coordinate the President's upcoming schedule, radio addresses, and political strategy against Senator George McGovern. They discussed managing media relations, specifically handling a request from Walter Cronkite for a televised presidential appearance, while ensuring the administration’s policy positions remained clear to the public. Additionally, they reviewed sensitive Vietnam negotiations, weighing Henry Kissinger’s progress in Paris against the strategic concerns of South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu and the potential for a post-election settlement.

Richard NixonH.R. HaldemanGeorge McGovernVietnam War negotiationsHenry KissingerMedia strategy1972 presidential campaign
AudioNARA Description

On October 4, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:00 pm and 5:30 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 215-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 215-4

                                        (rev. Oct-06)

Date: October 4, 1972
Time: Unknown between 5:00 pm and 5:30 pm
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

The President met with H.R. ("Bob") Haldeman.

        The President's schedule
            -Political meeting

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:00 pm.

        Refreshment

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:30 pm.

        The President's schedule
            -Meeting, October 5, 1972
                -Participants
                     -John B. Connally
                     -Robert J. Dole
            -Radio speeches
                -Raymond K. Price, Jr.
                     -Foreign policy
                -Economic issues
                     -Taxes, debt ceiling and fiscal responsibility
                -Timing
                     -Congressional adjournment
                     -Foreign policy
                          -George S. McGovern
                     -Washington, DC
                     -Camp David
            -Columbus Day
            -New York
            -Peter Fosco
                -Charles W. Colson's view
            -Atlanta
                -Local press coverage
                     -Press pool

        News summary

                                       (rev. Oct-06)

            -Questions and answers [Q & A] on issues

An unknown person [Sanchez?] entered at an unknown time after 5:00 pm.

        Instruction

An unknown person [Sanchez?] left at an unknown time before 5:30 pm.

        News summary
           -Q & A on issues
               -Amnesty, busing, Vietnam
               -Taxes
               -The press
                   -Comparison to 1968
                   -Creation of issues
                       -The White House
                            -Haldeman's view
                                 -Public opinion of the President
                                     -The President's schedule
               -McGovern
                   -Position on issues
                       -Comparison to the President
                            -Nomination acceptance speech
                            -Foreign policy, national defense
                                 -Differences

        Walter L. Cronkite, Jr.
            -Request for television appearance by the President
                -Possible motivation
                     -McGovern
                -Recent telephone conversation
                -Ronald L. Ziegler
                -Other television networks
                     -McGovern
                          -Interview scheduling
                               -Order of appearance
                          -Equal time
                -Connally
                -McGovern's appearance
                     -Network coverage
                     -Ziegler

                                      (rev. Oct-06)

        Issues
            -Vietnam
                -Negotiations
                    -Henry A. Kissinger's schedule
                         -McGovern's forthcoming speech
                         -Paris
                             -Announcement
                    -Settlement
                         -Roscoe Drummond
                             -Column
                         -Timing
                             -1972 election
                         -Kissinger's concerns
                             -Nguyen Van Thieu
                                 -Attitude towards proposals
                                       -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                             -North Vietnamese
                                 -Acceptance of proposals
                             -Thieu's perspective
                                 -Establishment of Council of National Concord
                             -Timing
                                 -1972 election
                                 -Possible offer
                                       -New York Times
                                 -US public attitude
                                       -Imposition of communist government
                             -Future military options
                                 -Possible bombing
                                 -Thieu
                                       -Government of South Vietnam [GVN]
                             -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]

Haldeman left at an unknown time before 5:30 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

So this would be a good one if it's okay to have Dole sit in.
Which we ought to do.
But we haven't had him.
Why?
To be here.
To make it in the office.
Yeah.
That's what we do.
And that's also good.
Working.
The phrase, still not happy with the foreign policy speech, he has several others, and the one they'd like to do for the radio speech is one on
And then that would, uh, ties in with what we're trying to do this week.
If you're going to give it at all, you should give it before Congress goes out.
Before it falls through.
That may be better anyway.
He called.
Sure.
Trying to get right on that mic.
Just set you up for a government meeting.
That's fine.
I'll have that mic.
Happy about that.
Good.
This is good.
It gets it out of the way.
I'm here anyway.
You're going to do that Sunday thing in Washington.
Sure.
And you're going to do it in Camp David anyway.
Good.
And it would be good for Sunday papers, which wouldn't be a bad idea.
Good.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah, let's get the New York exit past the track.
Yeah, track feels strong in the year.
The Costco thing does it much more good.
We're getting a lot more boxes out of it.
Well, we're going to go to Atlanta Thursday.
Well, you're going to New York.
It kind of looks like the press people.
Well, the pool should be heavily lighted, sir.
Yeah, I'd say a fairly heavy pool.
There are often am signs.
So I just have that story.
I'm against it.
I'm against it.
I'm against it.
I'm against it.
I'm against it.
I'm against it.
I'm against it.
I'm against it.
I'm against it.
Is that possibly taxes for example?
How's your tax position?
Your tax position is clear too.
It's just a specific proposal.
It's not spelled out yet.
You said you can't talk about why that.
I can't do everything.
I can't set it all up.
That's just bullshit, you know.
What is it?
It's barely a bullshit argument.
That wasn't the problem in 68.
They were just totally clear things.
Georgia, though, how they can manufacture issues.
I don't think it's gotten across to people.
No.
Oh, not that, not that long at all.
Not hiding in the White House.
I don't think so at all.
What they don't realize is that the people see you on television, they hear and read news out of the White House.
They don't know the difference of whether you're out on the road or in the White House or care, really.
I know.
So they made a dose last week.
I mean, not all.
They all are out in the country.
I don't have a chance, of course, to clarify his position on all these things.
What is really the difference?
My positions are clear.
Not only your positions, but where the differences are, what the issues are.
Laid it out in a very clear-cut fashion.
That's why we did it.
Exactly.
For anybody who has any questions to the acceptance speech, just spell it out.
Point by point.
And also, this trip around the country, they can say that we just built, I built, and I will later write out my life for a policy.
Yeah.
I just wonder if it isn't a total trap that he doesn't have a govern already.
That's why.
I just, it's all right.
He's talking to me.
He didn't, can't say he didn't get through.
That's right.
It's better this way than to say I, I attempted to reach Cousin Nixon, couldn't even get through to him, but his palace guard said that he would not be available.
Oh, yeah.
Then, Zegler can just handle it and say, well, what about the other trade networks and all that sort of thing?
Well, that's, that'd go through all, uh, and then, and then, and then, without someone to know, he wanted to say, uh, well, we over, we're,
I'm going to go first.
I'm going to go.
Put them on, too, so they don't have to be equal time practical.
That's fine.
We'll wait.
That's for equal time enemies.
We still have to have the... Well, I don't know how that works.
He isn't going to put you on and not put the governor on.
Oh, hell.
It's a very tedious man way to come at it.
Not to say that, just come out and say no.
He's going to.
If you just say I understand you're having Senator McGovern on, I'm going to invite him in.
I think you should say that I understand why you're inviting Senator McGovern.
I'm going to invite Senator McGovern again.
He's all happy now.
He's gone through another cycle.
We really got that stupid fellow right where we want him.
Here he is going on and I'll be on my way
And I soon will announce Henry's in Paris once he gets here like we have been.
So Sunday morning he's in Paris.
Then they'll say we did it to try and one-up a governor and we can show that it was scheduled long ahead.
It had nothing to do with this.
i guess his and trying to read through the lines his real concern what he was you know worrying about the press conference and all that but he's really what's really bothering him is is well not that he'll blow but that he has
I heard that he has turned this down, or whatever it is.
Well, apparently, what's bothering him is that Henry has made some offers that he was not approved.
That's it.
Some he has, some he hasn't, but no he doesn't.
So now he's on a sticky record as far as the two things are concerned, and he doesn't exactly see
and then give the remote possibility that he also thinks is a possibility.
He thinks because of the principle of virginity that he shouldn't be afraid of it.
So he shouldn't be.
LQ may know what they're up to.
He may see something that Henry doesn't see in all that.
Because there's something faulty about that offer.
There's something odd about a unanimous council.
There is something else to be said, however, too.
There's a lot to be said for New England's run after the election.
You have a mandate now.
You said, look, here's our offer.
You take it.
They'll come in.
Henry's afraid of something.
I'm sure he feels the New York Times and others will say we should cease.
What people get upset about how he can ride through.
Sure.
And go out and start bombing.
Well, the only problem we have is whether we can ride through with two.
I'm flushing him after the election.
And when you finally come down to it, the only reason I have any doubt at all about being very hard on him is whether or not being hard on him results in troubles and G.I.N.
Exactly.
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