{"conversationCode":"219-008","tapeNumber":219,"conversationNumber":8,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-219-008","startDateTime":"1972-10-11T00:24:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-11T00:44:00.000Z","startDate":"10-Oct-1972","startTime":"8:24 PM","endDate":"10-Oct-1972","endTime":"8:44 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On October 10, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 8:24 pm to 8:44 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 219-008 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDHW","recordingDevice":"Camp David Hard Wire","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 219-8\n\nDate: October 10, 1972\nTime: 8:24 pm - 8:44 pm\nLocation: Camp David Hard Wire\n\n                                        (rev. Oct-06)\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n[See Conversation No. 148-6; two items have been withdrawn]","filename":["219-008.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"219-007","nextCode":"219-009","transcript":[{"start":0.2,"end":8.39,"text":"So, I was trying to get Wilbur Mills, but I, uh, you heard we got the vote in the House."},{"start":8.41,"end":13.28,"text":"Oh, it was 221 to 163, and he's not on the victory."},{"start":13.3,"end":14.66,"text":"So, that's what you see."},{"start":14.78,"end":17.54,"text":"That's what the Spurs have done."},{"start":17.56,"end":20.17,"text":"I'm going to speak to the Spurs on Thursday morning to get them on the ass again."},{"start":20.19,"end":23.17,"text":"They won't pass it, but nevertheless, we still have a chance."},{"start":31.54,"end":42.71,"text":"But we'll try to put it in terms of fighting to keep taxes down and spending down and prices down and so forth."},{"start":42.73,"end":45.73,"text":"Not at all."},{"start":45.75,"end":48.39,"text":"We've got to put it in terms of this is a vote against high taxes."},{"start":49.13,"end":50.66,"text":"That's what we're doing."},{"start":50.68,"end":55.06,"text":"If you call a few people and want to comment, this is a vote against high taxes."},{"start":55.4,"end":58.1,"text":"The Senate should now vote against high taxes."},{"start":58.12,"end":58.73,"text":"The whole life, John."},{"start":60.56,"end":63.23,"text":"And then when you talked to me earlier, I had..."},{"start":63.25,"end":68.92,"text":"I heard you one little flippin' and then you kind of said that asshole Shriver dude."},{"start":68.94,"end":69.54,"text":"Dude, dude, dude."},{"start":69.88,"end":72.78,"text":"And I... Oh, for Christ's sake!"},{"start":73.3,"end":81.36,"text":"That's enough to piss the whole thing right off."},{"start":81.5,"end":84.14,"text":"It doesn't make it... Not that many thoughts."},{"start":84.16,"end":85.42,"text":"But the main point is that..."},{"start":86.82,"end":92.35,"text":"Our people should really mind that you want to pull a communist government."},{"start":92.37,"end":94.15,"text":"That's the German study."},{"start":94.17,"end":95.65,"text":"He's not talking about it."},{"start":95.67,"end":97.93,"text":"He wants to have nothing to do with it."},{"start":97.95,"end":102.42,"text":"He's to beg for the release of our people."},{"start":102.44,"end":103.2,"text":"He's no alternative."},{"start":103.56,"end":105.6,"text":"And it's a complete surrender, defeat."},{"start":117.6,"end":128.74,"text":"If I remember correctly, what about those four hundred, four million and a half poor bachelors who didn't have any great parents and the rest who didn't go to college and didn't bug out?"},{"start":128.84,"end":131.68,"text":"What about the 50,000 who lost their poor lives?"},{"start":132.68,"end":137.95,"text":"Oh, I think, I just hope we get, I think somebody's going to get, how about getting six minutes to take them off?"},{"start":164.75,"end":165.71,"text":"Here it is."},{"start":171.3,"end":172.62,"text":"All right."},{"start":173.08,"end":176.82,"text":"Well, basically, here, this fallen animal has crossed the crossroad."},{"start":176.84,"end":177.47,"text":"Here's the picture of it."},{"start":177.49,"end":180.55,"text":"He knows he's not there, you know, looking to incite the terror."},{"start":181.15,"end":185.22,"text":"And this really is a saboteur of the negotiations."},{"start":185.24,"end":189.84,"text":"I mean, if I were the enemy, I'd just fold up the whole thing in the long distance, right?"},{"start":194.13,"end":195.19,"text":"I'll give you a little play."},{"start":233.45,"end":259.99,"text":"Sure, that doesn't make a difference much, does it?"},{"start":286.96,"end":292.8,"text":"I just think this, though, and don't let the domestic counsel crowd drive off this."},{"start":292.82,"end":296.47,"text":"I want to slaughter him on this one."},{"start":296.49,"end":299.95,"text":"They really have to go after him as being, you know, this job."},{"start":300.01,"end":302.11,"text":"It'll help solidify the labor support."},{"start":303.06,"end":305.52,"text":"And don't get the view that this is going to raise the Vietnam issue."},{"start":305.66,"end":307.74,"text":"Harris would disagree on this, but Harris is wrong."},{"start":307.76,"end":309.3,"text":"It has to be wrong."},{"start":317.08,"end":321.46,"text":"Yes, but I mean, but Harris basically, his constituency is wrong in this issue."},{"start":322.38,"end":323.87,"text":"You know what I mean?"},{"start":324.21,"end":325.33,"text":"The Jew is right."},{"start":325.35,"end":335.54,"text":"But God damn it, we really ought to hit this."},{"start":340.71,"end":342.23,"text":"Right?"},{"start":342.25,"end":342.89,"text":"We hit this."},{"start":343.35,"end":345.3,"text":"God damn it, we have to make some business."},{"start":377.17,"end":380.6,"text":"Mendez-France, who was the cellar artist of the first watercolor culture."},{"start":386.18,"end":389.47,"text":"We didn't say Mendez-France was a disaster for France."},{"start":399.83,"end":401.07,"text":"Well, I can understand."},{"start":401.76,"end":403.72,"text":"Don't let anybody drive you up there."},{"start":403.74,"end":407.16,"text":"I know that you'll get to eat in the morning."},{"start":407.18,"end":415.95,"text":"I don't know who from, but just say, I decided, as a matter of moral principle, we've got to make this an issue."},{"start":415.97,"end":420.88,"text":"And he went right out of it."},{"start":420.9,"end":424.04,"text":"That's the most important."},{"start":424.26,"end":431.29,"text":"He was told as a communist, surrender to the communists, raising the white flag, and also, how you're going to abuse"},{"start":431.76,"end":437.29,"text":"All you have as a POW is to have these withdrawal forces quit the bombing."},{"start":437.31,"end":438.57,"text":"All you've got is to go pay the back."},{"start":439.53,"end":445.92,"text":"And there are still 15,000 French enemies that have never been accounted for."},{"start":445.94,"end":446.14,"text":"Hopefully."},{"start":448.27,"end":455.42,"text":"Oh, and make sure that Mel knows that a Frenchman like a Filipino is an American, right?"},{"start":455.6,"end":457.86,"text":"So is it South Vietnamese or an Argentinian American?"},{"start":457.88,"end":458.32,"text":"I mean a Frenchman."},{"start":486.25,"end":491.07,"text":"In amnesty, in POWs, that he would abandon our POWs."},{"start":491.8,"end":506.11,"text":"He would have, I mean, when they enjoyed any concerns, POWs, after exploiting the tree that they have in a shameful way, how does that leave that, the future of our POWs, these barbarians?"},{"start":507.27,"end":513.86,"text":"And then he goes on, amnesty, POWs, and imposing a communist government in South Vietnam, and defeat."},{"start":524.32,"end":543.16,"text":"Well, I must say that the, uh, the whole thing is, uh, now that it's, uh, he's just dead wrong in this thing."},{"start":543.18,"end":545.67,"text":"And he's just, for that whole reason, it's hard to go on about one section of the end of it because it's unbelievable."},{"start":545.69,"end":546.43,"text":"I didn't write that deliberately."},{"start":546.45,"end":549.87,"text":"I just think he may say mine."},{"start":555.73,"end":560.35,"text":"You put a few people on hand, and they all come up, alerting the DFW people to go on there."},{"start":589.75,"end":594,"text":"Let's burn his ass on that."},{"start":595,"end":595.16,"text":"450."},{"start":595.18,"end":598.67,"text":"4,500,000 Americans served during the Vietnam War."},{"start":599.35,"end":599.85,"text":"Their country."},{"start":600.87,"end":606.75,"text":"And he wants to take a few hundred that ran to Canada and let them come home and do what they can, please."},{"start":606.76,"end":607.89,"text":"Well, they're not going to come back."},{"start":623.19,"end":634.07,"text":"I would think that on this, I could get a whole lot more money."},{"start":634.09,"end":635.71,"text":"Me and you on it, right?"},{"start":635.73,"end":641.5,"text":"You think you might?"},{"start":641.52,"end":642.04,"text":"You really should."},{"start":698.01,"end":700.24,"text":"Okay."},{"start":700.3,"end":725.54,"text":"What else is there that ain't out there tonight?"},{"start":725.56,"end":725.98,"text":"Make sure to do that."},{"start":732.58,"end":750.14,"text":"We are, we are continuing to sing with another leader."},{"start":782.73,"end":783.79,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss legislative strategy regarding tax and spending bills, focusing on framing the issue as a fight against high taxes to secure necessary votes. The conversation shifts significantly to a political attack on Sargent Shriver, whom Nixon criticizes for his stance on Vietnam, POWs, and amnesty. Nixon instructs Colson to aggressively challenge Shriver's credibility, aiming to frame his positions as a betrayal of American service members and a surrender to communist interests.","topics":["Legislative strategy","Sargent Shriver","Vietnam War","POWs","Amnesty","Tax policy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T10:41:58.065Z"},"topicSlugs":["legislative-strategy","sargent-shriver","vietnam-war","pows","amnesty","tax-policy"],"audioDurationSec":787,"audioFiles":[{"file":"219-008.mp3","bytes":18881514,"durationSec":786.67,"bitrate":192015,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:36.204Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/219-008.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/219-008","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/219/conversation-219-008","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}