{"conversationCode":"220-004","tapeNumber":220,"conversationNumber":4,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-220-004","startDateTime":"1972-10-14T19:50:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-14T19:53:00.000Z","startDate":"14-Oct-1972","startTime":"3:50 PM","endDate":"14-Oct-1972","endTime":"3:53 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.;","description":"On October 14, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 3:50 pm to 3:53 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 220-004 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDHW","recordingDevice":"Camp David Hard Wire","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 220-004\nDate: October 14, 1972\nTime: 3:50 pm -3:53 pm\nLocation: Camp David Hard Wire\nThe President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.\n[See Conversation No. 149-4]","filename":["220-004.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ehrlichman, John D."],"prevCode":"220-003","nextCode":"220-005","transcript":[{"start":3.73,"end":12.63,"text":"Well, we can't hear anything new, right?"},{"start":16.6,"end":17.08,"text":"Good."},{"start":18.12,"end":40.14,"text":"Actually, the 20% limitation basically got the best of both worlds."},{"start":40.16,"end":42.03,"text":"It gives us a reason for cutting, you know what I mean, a little discipline with bureaucracy."},{"start":42.05,"end":43.11,"text":"And on the other hand, it gives us discretion, right?"},{"start":43.13,"end":43.87,"text":"And a chance to blame Congress still."},{"start":43.89,"end":44.01,"text":"Right."},{"start":44.03,"end":44.15,"text":"Right."},{"start":44.17,"end":45.03,"text":"Bob, incidentally, did talk to that fellow."},{"start":45.05,"end":45.45,"text":"He's just delighted."},{"start":45.47,"end":45.73,"text":"Philadelphia."},{"start":45.75,"end":45.85,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":46.12,"end":66.44,"text":"Yeah, apparently."},{"start":66.46,"end":66.82,"text":"It's a great idea."},{"start":66.84,"end":67.19,"text":"Of course, it is."},{"start":67.2,"end":67.56,"text":"It is a good idea."},{"start":67.58,"end":68.49,"text":"But don't you think it really is a good idea?"},{"start":68.51,"end":68.61,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":68.63,"end":70.17,"text":"It's just going to be a picture, and I think your idea is standing out front."},{"start":70.19,"end":70.93,"text":"Of course, we have a weather problem."},{"start":70.95,"end":71.33,"text":"We've got to watch."},{"start":71.35,"end":72.33,"text":"But if we can, we'll find a way to get out there."},{"start":72.35,"end":72.45,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":72.47,"end":72.73,"text":"Right, right."},{"start":73.32,"end":96.52,"text":"And I think that it really isn't too gimmicky because of the sense that the mayor invited us, he's a Democrat, the mayor is constitutional, and that's where it all began, and now we're making this change back to the Constitution, right?"},{"start":96.54,"end":97,"text":"So, anyway, okay, yeah."},{"start":97.43,"end":122.59,"text":"Yeah, you don't have to unless there's something I need to know."},{"start":122.61,"end":123.46,"text":"They're still sort of billing for the day."},{"start":123.48,"end":125.32,"text":"I see that it's kind of still puffing and puffing with these analysis hearings and so forth."},{"start":125.34,"end":125.94,"text":"It's just such a damn problem."},{"start":126.17,"end":145.39,"text":"Coming this late, it is a blatant thing, of course."},{"start":145.41,"end":146.74,"text":"But, you know, it's quite a parade that he has Mitchell and Keith."},{"start":146.75,"end":148,"text":"You can't, you can't blame any, Mitchell would have to appear."},{"start":148.02,"end":148.36,"text":"And so it stands."},{"start":148.38,"end":148.98,"text":"We keep the White House on it."},{"start":149,"end":149.76,"text":"It's like a privilege over the others."},{"start":149.78,"end":150.66,"text":"Of course, they'll be pretty good witnesses."},{"start":150.68,"end":150.8,"text":"Right."},{"start":150.82,"end":151.3,"text":"Just, just one of those."},{"start":151.32,"end":151.42,"text":"Okay."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss the strategic benefits of a 20% federal spending limitation, noting its utility in enforcing bureaucratic discipline and shifting blame to Congress. They also coordinate a planned appearance in Philadelphia, framing the event as a non-gimmicky, bipartisan return to constitutional principles. Finally, they briefly address the ongoing political fallout and potential witness appearances related to the Watergate-linked hearings involving John Mitchell and others.","topics":["Federal spending","Bureaucracy","Philadelphia campaign event","Watergate hearings","John Mitchell","Executive privilege"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T10:44:21.655Z"},"topicSlugs":["federal-spending","bureaucracy","philadelphia-campaign-event","watergate-hearings","john-mitchell","executive-privilege"],"audioDurationSec":153,"audioFiles":[{"file":"220-004.mp3","bytes":6132794,"durationSec":153.2,"bitrate":320245,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:36.205Z","transcriptGapSeconds":87,"transcriptGapShare":0.57,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/220-004.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/220-004","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/220/conversation-220-004","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}