Conversation 220-012

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It's harder for them than it is for you because they have an extra worry.

Of course, anything you say is possible.

But also, yeah, that's it.

They can worry about what they're going to do to you.

Yeah, I know.

But there's one point that makes their job infinitely easier than it was under Johnson.

you cannot do it you can't if a person gets out there makes his night out he does the best he cannot quit bitching at it now i will make a positive suggestion for example like when mcgregor puts out his story is about how many

direct mail, or Malif does, or going, God damn it, you gotta tell them so they don't do stupid things, you know.

That's something else.

He will never jump on a guy for doing it.

I don't jump on him, but I just advise him.

I don't think that ought to be done.

But you know, we don't, we back them up.

And if they make mistakes, we back them up.

You know?

Because I know they're going to make mistakes.

I know they're being bashered.

I know that it's really a rough big deal.

I saw the headline that had the story.

Hey, uh, because mom, mom, mom, that $70,000 secret service property's in crush and it wasn't fully disclosed.

Not a fucking word about this driver thing.

The point, which is real.

This has all of the property, according to John Erickson.

But the point is that I don't own the goddamn property.

I only have four acres that I can call my own.

Maybe someday I can buy the rest.

But, you know, it's just as clear as a bell.

It's almost unbelievable.

Well, John, this guy was back at it.

Oh, sure.

You said there's been, over the last few years, there's been three or four times that reporters have been around full-time to run that story down.

And they end up talking to John, working all their stuff, and they give up because there's no story there.

And they haven't, nobody's, nobody's tried to do anything with it.

Now, obviously, you're now down to the election, I know, several weeks before the election, and they'll lob it out.

In this case, I and Ray told them in the Los Angeles Times that they'd do the right thing.

And a lot of these callers on the phone say, well, the voters, there's nothing I can do about it.

No comment at all on the lottery.

I know we are, in one sense.

I guess I think we're not quite clever enough in terms of using .

You know, one thing we did do, I think, rather cleverly, was to view O'Brien's income.

So I think that's why he stood on that timeline.

I think that's right.

And we followed up by... O'Brien is very interested.

Since he's been in there, he said...

It may have been a couple of weeks out of the month.

But you also got to bring up the Minnesota people.

So that sort of thing helps, yeah.

We don't have many heavyweights, you know, they're going to attack these people.

That's our problem at the moment.

They are heavyweights, but they aren't recognized as such yet.

They will be, but it doesn't matter.

What is the situation on this, uh, this really shocking goddamn story of achievement this morning?

It's an old hearsay, but hearsay or not.

Well, the granny went to school this evening.

Yeah.

Is the Grady, what is he, radical?

Does he get mad about something?

No.

And why does he talk to a liberal Democrat called Young?

That's the problem.

Is he a friend of his?

Very close friend.

Who is Young?

Do we know him?

Yeah, Chapin, that's it.

Is he a USC man, too?

No.

Well, for Christ's sakes, that's where the problem is.

Remember I told you all the time, the kids around our shop talk too much.

Well, no, they just don't believe our shop didn't talk at all.

Well, Sir Grady was in our shop.

Yeah, really?

He was, he was okay.

A guy that had working out as a solo loan operator.

Remember, I told you about it, but after the, what happened in 68 camp, it's like Garmin and Shakespeare talking to that asshole that wrote the book about the editing.

They have somebody and they don't, you've got to check the loyalty of people before you ever confide in confidential matters.

Here's what happened.

The stupid thing, and to the degree that as far as we can determine, Segretti claims this can't be true, that the young gave this story, but what... Is Segretti on, Brennan?

No.

Totally, Brennan.

In the name of God, how can they believe that?

Why does he deny it?

They aren't, well, they aren't quoting Segretti.

They're quoting him.

He quotes Segretti.

Segretti ought to deny it.

Well, he's out of commission.

Our question now is whether we want to get Segretti out or not.

But they might have it here.

What happened with this thing is that Segretti panicked when he was ordered to...

The FBI got him on the basis of the Liddy phone call list.

Right.

Because he had called Zagretti a number of times.

So, yeah, they hit Zagretti.

He was scared.

Chapin wouldn't talk to him.

Actually, I think he did take the call once or twice.

I just told him not to worry.

Then he tried to reach Chapin and couldn't.

So he got...

I talked to this guy, Young, who is his best friend, and he was in a state of personal turmoil because the FBI and the grand jury were closing in on him, and he didn't know what to do.

So this guy, Young, being kind of smart, or not smart, a guy that's great, and who is a liberal, I don't know if he's a Democrat, but he's a very close friend.

He's a close friend of maybe him, so...

And he said to Young, what should I do?

He knew Young was a lawyer and all this stuff.

He was asking for help and advice.

And Young very shrewdly said, well, what are the facts here?

It's so great that it gives him all the facts of how he was recruited, what he was doing.

And Young kept bumping him on, apparently, to get more information.

Then, uh... Young was not in the campaign.

No, Young said nothing to do with it.

Nobody knows at all.

Well, Chabot knows him.

He was in school.

There's a... And some of the other guys may know him, but, uh...

He has had no contact with an increased year of Young.

Young has did this at all, except by his conversations with Segretti about his FBI testimony.

And that's where all the story comes.

Now, the Post called...

Friday and said that they were going to run this story Saturday, that they had an affidavit from this guy Young and that it said that Chapin had directed Segretti's activities, that Chapin had met with Segretti in Miami

And then met with Sue Grady, and then Sue Grady had met with Chapin and Howard Hunt in Miami.

Because of the Chapin denial, you see.

We then, Friday night, worked out a statement.

that they called back to the post for Chapin.

The result of that statement was to stop the story on Saturday because they realized they were past the bottom of the truth.

Then they shaded it to take out the specific denials that Chapin had made and ran the story with those things.

In other words, instead of saying Chapin met him in Miami, they say he met with Nixon and he's playing.

Now the fact is he did.

He was, he was, Chapin has never, Chapin doesn't know Howard Hunt, has never seen him in his life, wouldn't know if he saw Howard Hunt.

No, but he does.

And they were trying to tie Chapin to Hunt.

You see, they were trying to tie Chapin in as tight as they could get.

They had to loosen him.

But they, that didn't hurt them as far as running his picture and running, you know, making that believe it's a story.

It's just another story.

Well, we've been wondering about that.

Uh, I'm part of the group.

Chapin and Strachan, who Strachan also knows through getting that, incidentally, Time Magazine has the same story.

Which is curious, because it's Time rather than National Media.

Which, well, I'll tell you what it would indicate to me, that this guy, Yellen,

decided to move the thing and call both the washington post and time magazine because normally i know time would give this post would not give a story they had to time one thing we were thinking about based on that segretti is a hell of a currently totally reliable and totally able guy was to serve the segretti

and have him dump the whole thing, going beyond what they have, and describe what he was doing in detail, and then go into the things, the guidance that he was using, which was what TikTok was doing, what other people were, you know, trying to tie it all into it, that everybody does it syndrome.

That hasn't worked so far.

They let it go.

No, it hasn't.

Well, that's what makes me wonder about it.

But we decided not to do it.

Well, no, but I meant to say that was fun.

You know, that was fun.

That's the line.

Oh, yeah.

And that's the... How shamelessly that story is written is...

really something because they they use quotes and then they stop the quotes and continue the sentence with words like espionage and sabotage and all the sort of stuff that obviously the guy never used because he does he has never considered he was conducting espionage or sabotage there's

Segretti, just so you know, is incommunicado, but he calls John Dean from a public phone and calls onto a line that's not traceable or whatever here every day around noon.

So there's no way we can reach Segretti, but we get him every day.

And he can be...

He was supposedly the ideal guy for this kind of thing.

He had just gotten out of the Army and was a guy that loves this sort of college-brain politics.

He was a fraternity brother of Strong's, but not of Chapin's.

So they recruited him.

A lot of the facts in the thing, or I guess most of the factual statements are true.

There's another problem, in that they haven't got the name yet, but they will.

Because, I think they will, because I think they're also getting, it's also a grand jury and or a B.I.B.

Tom Bob, Tom Bob Payton, which he did.

This guy was back a year.

What would he say to be in such a violent moment?

It's got to say that Chapin won.

But Chapin did, in a sense, Chapin recruited the guy in the sense that he, the guy talked to him, said he wanted to get into the campaign somewhere and it occurred to Chapin that he'd be a hell of a guy to do some of the things that Chapin began and did in early 68.

Rhymer.

Yeah.

And, uh,

He turned him over to Comstock, who at that time was handling the outside.

But what does Comstock say?

You can see the tie there is turning to the president.

How does he know?

He probably does.

He knows a little bit further shape of that thing.

He knows.

The FBI took a sworn statement for Chapman, and he said that he had not seen Greg in college, that he hadn't suggested him for this job.

He had talked to them from time to time on the telephone, but that he did not direct his activities to them.

He did the same, and he has a lawyer who got him.

So he can take his cards and stuff like that.

He was doing

There was another problem in there, and this may have some bearing in it.

Liddy was setting up the same kind of operation out of 1701.

This guy was not working with them.

He was working as a total independent operator, just moving on his own.

I think you better get pretty quickly ready to do the historic rating on the Comlock.

What funds he was using.

The same funds.

And that's what I'd say.

The same funds.

What I meant is get Comlock out of the business.

In other words, throw it all over the committee.

We've got you.

That's the best thing we can do.

I can see.

Never been any secret about Combot working to raise funds for you.

No.

Because he and his team crossed wires somewhere with Liddy's people.

And Liddy was rather vicious and horrible.

He said, there's some guy out in the field sabotaging what we're doing, and my people are going to kill him.

So if there's any way that he's our guy, we better find out because he's in serious jeopardy.

He's already working in a different field.

Well, he was.

And so then...

Dean or somebody checked it out, found out he was working as our guy, and they did tell him that he's not, and they think that Sue Grady started working with him, so, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

All right.

As I understand it, Doreen, you can't believe the gun.

Would have done that next time.

Would have done that.

It's not even.

See Bob, the moment, the problem, I thought it was charged in that sense, but we tried that, and they are not going to find it.

There's another standard, so I just think you've got to sort of brace them to not be out there because they think they're not going to be understood.

Like when we raise anybody's points on the other side, they just keep burrowing in, you know, and I'm like, no, we're not interviewing that.

What about you?

What are you going to do?

I wish it were otherwise.

I'm afraid you're right.

If there were any parents in the press, it would be their fault, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Well, the problem is that the press that would be fair with it don't do anything with the story at all.

And I think it's probably better that nothing be done with the story to the degree that...

The post, obviously, is going to gallop around with it for a while.

I don't know.

I mean, the Time magazine.

That'll have to come back.

There are things moving on the wire.

The Time story.

The Time magazine story.

Same story.

Basically, it's stuff that details the amounts of money paid in the hand-printed, sort-of-strange-naked television.

Posted.

Different source.

Time.

That's interesting.

I don't know about that.

This is so normal.

which would mean they're the ones that have the... grand jury, and this grand jury, because they weren't at the grand jury, that has to be an FBI leak.

I've always felt the leak is grand.

We told them to go early and talk to Gray, and Gray, now, I think, I shouldn't say this, but it's my understanding that Gray has admitted earlier that he now believes that

Yeah.

The governor's making his corruption speech tonight, and we couldn't figure why they were going with this post story yesterday and not today, which reaches way out on a pretty flimsy thread.

For what purpose they were using it, obviously the purpose was to set a white house in the water.

Why achievement?

have the feeling, I thought, Friday, that what they were probably after was to get something in the paper that McGovern could use in his corruption speech tonight to tie the sabotage and all that stuff directly to the president instead of letting him run out to the committee.

And they were doing it late this weekend, so...

But now all of the Times, you're saying, all of the Postal Service says they reported the change and so forth and so on.

It doesn't go so far as to say he directed his people to get out of the door in front of the group.

I think they're just trying to give one governor a basis in his speech tonight to be able to say the White House has president

Yeah, they go to a great, great extent.

One of the few people that has ready access.

Again, as with everybody else, Chapin's first reaction is, you know, don't be, if that's what you want, do anything, whatever you want to do.

What in the world would you do to do that?

I mean, what would it do?

Well, we've talked about that.

What that would do is say that there's more to it than meets the eye.

Right.

And there is more to it than meets the eye.

There's less to it than meets the eye.

And I think Erland's approach is exactly right.

The really sad irony in this is that Chapin was called Thursday night and formally then selected as one of the ten outstanding human men that were junior chairmen.

I don't know whether that may be a fact or not.

On this, no.

Is the ammo there or not?

No.

Maybe I'm too detached from it, but I think it's also a story.

Even if all of us are in the land, we're playing against it.

The point of this, though, is that if I hearsay says the controller is going to be important to the team,

That's why we put hearsay in shape of Satan.

It's fundamentally not true and it's based on hearsay.

Those are the points we want to get.

And then they see that cleverly to try and use it in the mind of the innocent observer that hearsay is charging.

put Young's thing in the form of what they call a sworn statement or something like that.

They refer to it to us as an affidavit.

They call it a sworn statement.

A lot of people think it's true.

I don't know.

And it's official because it's a sworn statement.

A sworn statement.

I think you're dealing with Young, with a clever lawyer who

Incidentally, Young, that's right, they were saying, I was saying, well, what would his motivation be if he's such a good friend of Greg's?

I said, his motivation is he is super ambitious politically and personally and has not been very successful.

And that he's the kind of guy that one thing they would see is that he sees the chance to get himself big headlines.

And that he'd do damn near anything, including exposing himself to get headlines.

Well, he's up in the water for three or so weeks, too, and it's terribly tough.

I mean, this whole thing, this tragic movie with Morty Sands, I think it's probably the worst thing that would ever happen.

Because he's so goddamn square and straight, and there's mud in the middle of all this stuff.

It's just, he is not a good person.

All of this, and while you're just saying what all of our people are,

They really aren't good people.

And therefore, they're lousy in these testimonies and things because they aren't capable of lying.

Like the MTI that I was saying, you know, that affects the mafia people.

If they were looking at us, they wouldn't be able to do it.

What do you think of, like, of making change in the government?

Well, I think it was everybody's.

reaction, but I'm just saying, well, sure, well, anybody's willing to do that, and he's, you know, trying, but the point is that, for Christ's sakes, it's like Sherman Adams and that coat, that was a mistake, and we were not going to, you know, that whole strategy, and that was wrong to say, to say I'm going to keep it because I need it, rather than I'm going to keep it because there's no reason not to, you know,

He was getting married at 7.30 and at 7.10 we were still talking to him on the phone about this thing and I said, Jadis, John, don't you think you better go get ready for your wedding?

It's a hell of a ceremony, isn't what matters.

It's a consummation, and that doesn't come for another hour and a half.

You stick right with the treatment.

It's okay.

I mean, we've had, I don't think that's any too bad.

They've had a lot of that location.

It's cold.

It's warm.

That's right.

And they've drugged the White House, and they're already bombed.

You know, so Jacob's a new name.

That's all.

He's supposed to see me every day.

I wouldn't back off of that, though.

I wouldn't try to push him away.

No.

That's a great statement.

We know it's not true, but I just wouldn't try to push him away.

That's, that's, that's defensive.

Meanwhile, the combat one I want to, I want to kill, and I won't even check the bottom line.

You have to say... You know it doesn't have to say a goddamn thing.

No, no, no, no, no, I know that.

I'm concerned about his saying.

It's a question of whether what he says...

If the lawyer for the president is involved in putting up the money, that's a bad story.

Yeah, I'm pretty darn close.

That's what I'm concerned about.

If, however, a fundraiser for a president's committee to re-elect or something is going on, that's not a bad story.

Is the writing in full gone?

No.

Confirmed.

Well, apparently, they said that he saw what I said in the story, and that's what we understood he had.

West Coast lawyer.

A West Coast lawyer who was very, had very close ties and whose name must be guarded carefully.

And it specifically did not give, Zagretti did not give Gillum any names except Chapin and Howard.

And Gillum put the two together erroneously.

He thought Chief and I were working together to try and tie them together in his thing, which was not true.

So they dropped that part.

That was in when they called us.

It's not in the story.

They dropped it.

One thing it might mean for him.

They're demanding that they run young school segment instead of running an editorialized version of it.

Or at least somebody ought to be able to see you on this whole stage.

If it's distorted, do you understand?

Is there any question about that?

Yeah.

If it's distorted in the sense of using it, using portions of it selectively and editorializing around it, is that distorted?

I'm not going to say you shouldn't say that.

I believe in that.

That's the point.

So the story, let's look at it in a different way.

You have to come out.

You have to be honest.

I don't know that it will be in the record now.

It is.

Somebody has used your name in the record.

I think they have a statement about that one.

I don't know if he's tied to this.

I don't know what...

If you understand the precise nature of Combox's role is, I mean, the rest of the Combox statement.

Yep.

That's the most important thing.

Yep.

Last night, I'm just going through this, this, uh, pains of decision cycle now.

And, uh, I'm not, all I'm doing is before the facts completely in the fire.

I'm raising the questions and alternatives to make sure we're doing the right thing.

We want to do the right thing.

They said, I can stall this by raising some more technicalities in Paris and run it through so that we don't get to a decision point until November 15th, if that would be a good idea.

And they said, I think we ought to think that through very carefully and be sure to want to do it.

the nigger in the wood pile and that he says if he does that and what he would do is spot some more problems and then go through with this scenario

And I said, Henry, under no circumstances can you go to Hanoi unless you have a locked agreement that will be announced within hours after your return.

You're just so passionate to go to Hanoi.

That's right.

And I said, if indeed it is better to hold this till the 15th, accepting that premise for a moment, not necessarily because of you.

then it would be imperative that you go to Paris.

And it might be not even to Saigon, let alone to Hanoi.

Because as soon as you get to Saigon, the World Grover Mill is going to go through the roof.

And when you go to Hanoi, it's going to go through the sky.

And there is no way.

And that would be bigger.

And then if you come back from Hanoi, and we have to sit for three weeks, which is what it would be,

Wondering what you did at Anaheim.

We're in real trouble.

And also, it would look like a pathetic effort for the president.

And that everything else...

He was coming before the election and frantically trying to get a deal before the election.

He even sent his, his Dr. Kissinger to suck around right there at Anaheim.

It's unbelievable.

I don't, no, maybe I'm wrong, but that, I...

I'm just amazed he didn't raise it.

That's a bad judgment.

No, he...

He was going to start with one, but he said...

He said we could go through this scenario, but we could get it dragged on with some different angles.

No, no.

But we'd still go through the whole schedule.

No.

Also, he said it would be imperative if we did that, that from the time of this trip until the election and until November 15th, we would have to stop bombing.

And I said, Henry, there's no way we can stop bombing.

People will say, what the heck?

There is again that pitiful giant bomb.

There's Nixon.

No, it's the bombing call and there's Lyndon Johnson bombing calls.

Bombing calls without any getting anything forward.

No, we can't stop bombing until we get something.

So I said, I said, that one is out of the question.

There's no way we can stop bombing.

No way.

And Hal, he admitted that.

He's agreed we're stuck.

We're not bombing Hanley while he's there.

But that we continue the bombing below the 20th parallel or whatever it is, right up until even after the announcement.

He's really, really stuck with everything he goes through.

Then he said, he said one problem that worries him is

If two goes along enthusiastically, he has no concern about Paris.

He's sure he's going to get that put together.

His concern is two.

And he says if two goes along enthusiastically, which he well might, two might say, this is what I've been after, right?

But then we have to brutalize two.

And

then don't succeed, then we're in the position of having to go to Hanoi and saying, we can't get you to go on.

I go to Hanoi.

That's right.

In my view, and I may be misreading, but I think you're dealing with, as is usual in these things, the biggest problem you've got is not a substantive one or a real one, but a personal ego one of Henry's obsession with going to Hanoi.

Hmm.

And I said, you'd have to cancel that.

He says, well, that would break it off with them because they're kind of like me.

He's kind of overdone that.

He says, they want it so bad to get me down.

He's getting it iced on them again.

Then he makes the point, if Tu turns it down, then we would have been better off to have been hung up in Paris on a North Vietnamese negotiating point, then to look like we're hung up on a Tu point.

And he's right.

My point is, the time to hang it up is in Paris, not in Saigon.

But if you hang it up in Paris, you've got to hang it up and come home.

And turn it off and go right on bombing.

and just look like you're still working on the negotiations.

Politically, the more you think about it, I don't think the risks of it, I don't think the settlement runs as any harm.

One very important point, the semantics of it, constantly coming to the word coalition.

must never, never, never be used.

That state's lying.

The state wants a coalition government.

And to the moment you ever say that what he is agreeing to is a coalition with the conscience, they say, why the hell didn't you do it four years ago?

Okay.

There's something to be said for finding out what Jim's reaction is before he goes to Paris.

That's what I think.

Yeah, I don't know how that happened.

Yeah.

So much less visibility than Henry.

You know what I mean?

You could say this is part of the ongoing thing.

Yeah.

You could go and lay it out to Jim.

Yeah.

then come back and meet Henry in Paris.

They decided not to formally track it up with him.

And they agreed to it without the delay of scripting Paris.

What I mean to Henry is that I said that the president, in my view, as I understand it, is absolutely, precisely,

on what he means when he says that you are to conduct this thing without consideration for the elections.

That you should not consider November 7th as any different than any other day in the league, and that what you should be doing is, what we're seeking here is the right settlement as quickly as we can get, and that's the basis on which you should work.

And you shouldn't do anything to delay it one day if that delay runs any risk.

of not getting it in the right form.

Or should you speed it up?

We don't need it before the election.

But we've already heard him a little and talked to ourselves about that it might hurt us before the election.

I don't believe this girl talking to us.

It isn't going to hurt us because it will fall out both ways.

And it will fall out much more for us than that.

Yes, I agree.

I agree.

I don't want, I don't want him to do it.

But he left too strong.

And I haven't told him that.

But I, that's basically if he does, he will face my price.

That's right.

But he's in the right posture in thinking.

He was the thing he was doing in the election that we've now told him.

And she's convinced him now that he isn't winning the election.

I said, young Henry, there is no way the president can lose this election, so don't.

That's what I was going to say.

It could be made a lot closer.

It could come closer, and it couldn't get much bigger.

You couldn't win by more than it's going to.

You might win by less, but that isn't important.

What is important is that he wins, and that's going to happen.

It can't be undone.

It could be undone no matter what happens in Vietnam.

I wonder if something could be said for this.

Coming up, I don't have a down there.

No.

And talking to me, if you'd like to talk to me.

I don't know.

I was wondering if you could come up and chat with him for a bit sometime today.

Why don't you just get out and talk on the phone?

I'll suggest that.

What is it, guys?

That's right.

You don't know if you're gonna have one.

That could be a fallback position too.

Yeah.

This would be an intermediate to that.

Yeah.

I don't think that's, I think that's, there's more negatives to that than positives.

Weighing one side versus the other, but that, that's a good, that's a better position than just dropping it at that point, probably.

That's really what you're saying, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

He urges that he not have to come up today.

He's going to open today.

I'm trying to save you tomorrow.

He's now persuaded that we shouldn't stall it.

What he said was, though, as an intermediate position, that maybe what he should do is go to Saigon on schedule, follow the schedule through to Saigon, that if Hugh buys the plane,

We're going to have a real problem with that.

Then go on through it and lock it up.

But then if two does... Then our position as of now would be that if we can't sell two, we have to brutalize it.

And then if we brutalize it, now it's wrong.

Now's not the time to do it.

An interim position to just pulling off and stalling till after they lock it would be...

to tell Tu that to give him a week and then to come on home from Saigon.

And then go back through the whole cycle again the following week.

Go back to Paris, then to Saigon, then Hanoi.

On the basis that Tu wouldn't have a chance to get his troops in line and other things that he's going to be worried about.

That would be an intermediate fallback position before dropping the thing altogether.

He thinks, he says it has the political advantage of making the thing one week later.

The president's announcement doesn't get on the 31st.

And then if anything fell apart, it would be much closer to the election and less dangerous.

He's concerned about the

The possibility of a fall, that fall apart and collapse, even though we get it all put together, you then have to live with it.

I don't think that would hurt you.

If it came apart and side down.

Oh, if it came apart and side down.

That's why you need to turn it on.

It might have, uh...

I see.

Sorry, I thought earlier it was a fall apart on that one.

the violation of the ceasefire.

I don't think that would be true.

That's right, but you could prepare the people for that.

This is a ceasefire, and in all these cases, there will be sporadic violations, and that will not go aside.

No, on reflection, I would just...

I never thought

See, Henry's position now is fighting the government in the proper perspective because he has fallen into any settlement before the election.

I'm looking to that as one of his major expectations.

And another thing, he's thinking of the fact that after the election, that he's going to understand that he and he were to defend himself and totally deny that.

But that is what we're getting involved in here.

On the other hand, he's really got the deal he's talking about.

And it really is the way he describes it.

He's got to help with his settlement.

Settlement.

I think the settlement is the next one.

I don't know.

There's going to be a bigger political effect after this.

We'll solidify our support, and the thing you mentioned the other day that I hadn't really thought about is to start looking at segment strips.

I think it's going to make a hell of a difference.

Sure it is.

Our kids, who are really worried about the war, and are worried about it, that's for sure.

That's right.

You know, they think honestly so.

They think we're doing as good as we can, but the old Christ can't be stopped at the moment.

That's right.

They're concerned about it.

And the particular men are infected with the government records and all that sort of stuff.

Now, what if we ran an anonymous telephone call?

What if we did that?

They would be badgering the shit out of us.

They're badgering you.

Who?

Are they badgering you?

Yeah.

Yes, they are.

Well, not publicly.

They've made the point that it's not.

Who's they?

The press.

The traveling press.

This is the stuff we get out of the press when they're working, when they keep on being on it.

And his press secretary told him not to use the record until he could verify that they've already run it.

It's another example of this, you know, the guy just said he's real smart.

He grabbed that thing, heard it on the plane, walked right out and played with it the next round.

Get me cups of money.

I'm sure they have some of their store-bought pipes.

But I'm sure they'll want a little purchase to help a lot of people to put up money to move the so-called church.

It's just like the crowds, sure.

So he gets 10,000 people.

And that, to him, is a big crowd.

Senators in South Dakota don't get 10,000 people.

That's very often.

And he's an armistice president, like Krause and Lee.

And he's been so lossy about the Supreme Court, he couldn't see something.

Like recently, somebody spent good, though.

I opened the car, and our enthusiastic guys were all excited about him.

John Connolly was.

Yeah.

John Connolly was.

She must have had a sensational day yesterday.

Yeah.

The people that are working in a three to five ranger are right.

That's right.

The worst detractor, the lowest they could get was whatever the size of the crowd, it was huge.

Super enthusiastic, yeah.

Henry's objection to hate going, probably, at least, you know, he certainly did.

Oh, Henry was so cruel about hating, you know.

He thought it might be true, you know, everybody that can't do it can hatefully, and that's pretty good.

He didn't raise that at all.

He said, you know, everyone, you know, has a problem.

Since we had to settle for some good, we just about got to go through with it.

But I didn't take that for the life of me.

The other side of that is that you still don't look at it.

We keep talking about, well, if they break it off, we've got the record.

If we break it off or stall it to a point where they've got the record, and that is the one thing that really could hurt us.

And that can hurt us if we start stalling.

If you won't go off, then we say, we don't need to have this boy.

We've got to keep this boy going.

Thank you.

And we're right all the way out on that limb, a citizenry of these guards, and those decide that.

Back to the Kambach thing.

I think it's terribly important.

You've got your mother, and you've got your son, and you've got your parents, and you've got your children.

You've got to get this head on, and you've got to start trying to do something.

Okay.

You need to have a quick, fast answer on Kambach, and then

I haven't, but they may have.

John, I don't think he should be.

He'll be back in September.

He'll be back in the air.

I just have to find out.

I don't know.

I guess it's a confirmed on the day.

And he's prepared, of course, to go out with him.

Of course, we have all the questions.

Probably, but I would guess what he'll do, and I would hope what he'll do, is at some point, in sorrow, say, gentlemen, I was invited here to discuss domestic issues while Secretary Rogers discussed foreign policy issues.

And I would hope that sometime we can turn to that.

Well, I'll tell you the other thing.

If we had anybody on here today...

Inevitably, anybody that we had on is going to get these questions.

There's nobody I'd rather have in our house.

He's going to be better on this stuff than Barbara.

Barbara could be your hurt line or whatever.

You know, he sure is bright.

He's a lawyer.

He's clever at twisting this stuff.

He understands the use of the emotional ordeal about the sordidness.

My patriotic young man.

I don't think they did.

We were concerned that they would.

I don't know what time it was.

Well, when time runs it now, we always do terrible research about time, about life as a cactus, time as a cactus, and it's still a one-to-two-day story.

I don't care what the hell it is.

I don't think it's going to be that big, and I really don't.

It'll be interesting to see how you get that big play in the Washington Post.

I don't think you'll see that kind of play anywhere in the country.

I don't think so.

Oh, sure, sure, sure.

I'll check those times and pick it up.

I'm going to check out this, uh, I don't know if anything should be done, but, uh, uh, Roy actually just came back from Europe, called, from Europe, and, you know, wanted to give you a report that he wanted to see you.

Uh,

because he had a meeting with, well, he was in Germany while he was on business, and Franz Josef Strauss heard that he was there and asked to see him, and went through some various things that they wanted to talk about, and obviously he was getting around to something, he finally got to something, and he asked Ash to convey a message to you.

He said that he did not...

He handled it quite delicately, and Ash was concerned about how to handle it delicately.

He said he had met with Henry relatively recently, Strauss said, and that he had not, this matter had just arisen, and he had not discussed it with Henry, and that he preferred that this be a separate communication to the president, not through Henry, although he was very judicious about how he raised it.

The point, the piece of information, this is in regard to the November 19th vote, the stock elections in Germany.

And he says he's learned through an intelligence agency of another country that Braun has a representative of his in Moscow at the moment working to enlist their Soviet support for a device that Braun has come up with, which is to set up a plan to allow West Berliners to elect members to the Bundestag with full power, to full voting power,

which they do not now have.

If they did that, it's generally believed by Strauss, and I guess not with him, that the election is now basically 50-50 between Braun and Brunswick.

That if Braun were successful in getting West Berlin voting in the Bundestag, West Berlin would be solidly Braun, and that would shift the election.

that if this is not done, there's at least a 50-50 chance it may be better that the election will go to the CDU and Barcelona.

Strauss assumes, and he knows nothing, and he didn't say anything good from the Senate, that we would prefer to see Barcelona than the Front, and prefer to see the CDU in that unit.

The fact that Front has a representative in the Soviet Union is not known in terms of this.

It's only become known to

The approval for a West Berlin, for this West Berlin thing, would require four-power approval.

In other words, if they get the Soviets behind it, they still can't do it.

They have to have four-power approval to have it come about.

The argument is that this is, that will be made on it, is that this is one more step towards rapprochement and they'll make it as a big peace movement, you know, have nothing to do with the elections, this is the big thing.

It is believed that the French would agree with this move.

That it will then be presented to the United States in a way that tracks us and puts us in a corner where to be against it would pose a real problem.

He suggests two alternatives.

One, if it is presented to the U.S., that we say this is very interesting and we'll consider it, but don't get around to a decision until after the November election.

The other would be to say, or another would be to say this is a very good idea, but we think it should go, if we're going to take this step, we ought to really take it and complete it.

We should make West Berlin a full state of West Germany.

given state status, like the other states, the Russians would be towed out.

And he didn't accomplish the purpose.

That would kill him for now.

But with the illness on the Russians, we're pulling him.

So the problems I see in this are that we're being trapped here somehow.

And he doesn't know any of what we do or don't do or want to do.

He said, I don't know who we're for, but maybe we're not for Bartzell, so that's a problem, and I don't want to know.

Secondly, maybe we're being trapped in that Strauss is trying to put us in a risky position, doing something we don't want to know.

And the fact that he brought it up, it all creates a trap.

Because now our relations depend on the role we take.

If Bartzell wins, then we screw him, and if he doesn't win, we don't win, whatever.

give Ash a lot of reasons why we should be four parts away from the whole thing.

Yeah, I know that.

Charles asked, did he get a communication back from the United States in some form as to what our position would be?

And then he thinks the U.S. is seeking new interests from the U.S. Ash said, why don't you go through, or I said to Ash, why, in your opinion, is he not going through Bissinger, which would be the normal process?

And Ash said, he didn't say except

I get the impression that he sees Kissinger as inscrutable and that he's not sure what Kissinger's position is.

And he's therefore afraid the president won't get the message.

Strauss did say to Ash that he has, this is a separate topic in a sense, that he has some questions regarding our actions, our dealings with the Soviet Union.

And he wonders

He is being given the information that our moves with the Soviet Union are for the purpose of developing a counterforce to the resurgence in Western Europe, because we're concerned about the resurgence in Western Europe.

And then he said, our concern is we don't want Germany to become a Taiwan.

Ash countered that on his personal, this was personal discussion, not to be too late to you, and Ash countered saying, well, you know, that's, I'm sure there's been rapid work in that.

Roy was embarrassed about handling this this way.

It's said that he had been in a similar situation a while back at one point where George Johnson asked him to convey something, and that Ash quite properly called Henry.

And Henry said, I don't want to hear it.

I don't want to talk to you.

Strauss knows me, and he wants to talk to me, call me himself.

And Ash said, maybe I'm doing the wrong thing.

I'm raising this.

I don't know.

He said, you'll do anything we want.

We're not doing anything we want.

I wouldn't.

Right.

The general outline to you is, again, we have your very...

is more of our relationship.

So, we don't want that.

We are about to want to get that distraught.

All that is predicted before there's a lunchtime or thereafter.

It's kind of going to be very hard for you to play there.

On the other hand, I totally support this show.

And I agree with that.

I just don't think that the event probably is

Hmm.

The Skrout Center for Munchies passed that December 8th.

The Skrout Center for Munchies passed on the message.

And they, they actually, they're very interested in the message.

Delivered at the highest level.

That's all they should say.

It's not the result of the U.S. position.

It's the way you drive.

It can be.

I mean, we're not helping.

and so on, they said that if we can't drag people, I'm getting requests from employees in that election for the 19th.

I think that's the thing to do.

And you've got the problem, too, that we can't have these cases.

And some people think, you know, okay, he doesn't have answers, but I know that he's got a choice.

He knows that in terms of politics and racial politics, he probably has the choice.

It's like a game, Karen, but I should answer it.

So if you've got just an edge and printing messages, go back to the other phone.

Just pass it on to me.

Well, well, you could say that I

for many years, you know, Strauss, and so forth, Strauss unburdened himself for this, you know, this, and the like, yeah, and that we, and so it's a passion of his, and he should be very proud of it, okay?

Get it right today?

They wanted to do that, I don't know if you've got it.

I didn't think it was a very good idea.

Oh, well.

I mean, it makes no difference, but it makes them happy and it does do them harm.

Sure.

It makes them feel that they don't have a whole bunch of enemies.

Well, they will be impressed.

The people of the...

Some of the people of the people of the...

I don't know.

I guess Friday is still the right time.

Well, because of the World Series.

Besides that,

And just, there's no point in going up against the military.

Fine.

And we'll go, we'll go over them.

It gives us more time to promote it than it takes.

We don't have to, you know, right?

We can get out of the place and we'll go to Philadelphia.

Also, I'm thinking, you know, you're in the city.

This goddamn corrupt Watergate stuff and so forth.

It's about trying to counterattack.

Yes, it is.

That's a counterattack.

Well, he's going to counterattack Tuesday in a press conference.

As I understand it.

What do you know about this latest post story?

I don't know what it adds to anything.

What brief does it add except Chapin?

That's what it adds.

And that bothers us.

Who the hell is Dwight Chapin as far as the world is concerned?

Some kid in the White House.

They build that up pretty good.

Yeah, but a Clinton secretary doesn't sound, you know, that to us, that used to be a big job.

Yeah.

But I don't think the people outside of the appointment secretary sounds like much of a person.

I'm surprised that they haven't, because they've got strong, too.

I'm surprised they haven't tried to tie it tighter to me.

I guess the only way we can is through them.

Well, they do.

They were.

They tried.

Well, they tried to haul.

They hauled Perlman at the end.

They tried to haul Ziegler and all those people in because they were all going to SC.

Talk about your guilt by association.

They list all the SC alumni in the thing.

I don't know why they didn't put Pat Nixon in there.

He didn't.

She went to SC.

Yeah.

I think I should read the various campaigns.

Like the other side.

That's what I'm saying.

But the twist he's going to put on it is that this dirty campaign thing has gone far enough that we've got to get back to the issues.

And because I view that so strongly, I have prepared a television program, which I understand will be run on the networks later this week.

And we have the time to say we run Friday nights at 30 in front of a local station.

and then you know we kind of pace it out so we build up and they're concerned about the uh

There's no question about running it, but there's an opportunity here, I think, which is to, because in Congress, about Democrats for Nixon money, I've told them, I think maybe they're doing it.

What they should do is, in New York, call 10 or 20 of the biggest money Democrats for Nixon types.

Tell them, you've got to come over to the Waldorf this afternoon at 4 o'clock.

It's a priority.

Emergency meeting.

Then run the program for them.

Run the film.

And when it's over, say, gentlemen, do we need a million dollars in order to put this program together, get it on the air, promote it, and move it around the country properly?

I agree.

Not just in our country.

We're the biggest Democrat in the country.

Well, what I was suggesting is they do the same meeting in Chicago.

at two different meetings.

And that's until each of them change a million dollars.

Give as much money as you can.

That would take care of all these Democrats for Nixon Trump, of the money to them.

I think so.

And it's the kind of program, I'll tell you, if Julian Andrews is sitting there, or Nicholas Rosa, or whatever that guy's name is, any of those kinds of people,

When they finish that program, if you tell them we need another $100,000 from you, I think they'll write the check and hand it to you.

That's what I've always thought.

By specific names?

Well, yeah, I didn't have a program, but I used to.

And I've always said, if you tell them, we need a billion dollars to have a special billing.

A billion dollars.

...finance and credit, of course.

These guys will love it if they do this for the program, because then on Friday night, they'll get people going, well, I put that program on, that's my show, and I have a great program.

And it is.

And they'll feel that.

It will sell them.

They'll go super balls out.

They'll feel a lot better.

His Democrats are self-sustaining, and that program could make them so.

And if they become self-sustaining on the basis of his program, that'll build him up.

which also would be good.

You've got to find a way on the CommLock thing.

I said I hope the thing doesn't come out, because they may not know how to make them.

Already, I don't know that all the vaccines that we may not have.

But the point is, what you've got to do about is put the CommLock thing into the election.

It's not that you don't get a job at any election committee, or a story handiwork, or somebody that's not reported, or what the hell is going on.

Whether it was reported or not, I don't have a real question anybody's mind about the existence of the plant.

It wasn't reported probably because it was pre-reported.

All this happened last year.

You see my point.

The main thing is the compound must have gotten it.

You agree, don't you?

I sure do.

I totally agree with the election.

The election debate.

What was it about his firm that you wanted to have?

Well, I'm like tied into the ID&T thing.

We're trying to, you know, we're trying to kind of democratize it.

I mean, we can go back and pull out, you know, you run that Combox string and you might just end up in a lot of things, too.

I'm sure it works for staff.

If his name's in it, what you have to do is simply say he's been a fundraiser all along through the years, and then you're trying to get all that.

And they, uh, this guy was going to be doing some of this, this, uh, month gain stuff, and, uh, how about the range to, to next month's, for his expenses?

I get the focus on Tom Buck as a campaign committee guy in this thing.

And we're not going to get consistent.

We're not going to get a follow-up.

We're not going to get a buddy.

We're not going to get a consultant.

We're not going to get a lawyer.

We're not going to get a president.

Look at it.

The other people who are personal about it are the ones that did your wills and trust and all that sort of thing.

That's right.

Do they have a comeback in that story?

In the New York Times story?

No.

Why do you care about it?

I haven't read it.

It's insane.

They have a hang of it.

But it's so confusing.

I know.

You don't control it in any part of sense.

In any part of sense, you don't control it.

If they decide to do something else, there's nothing you can do about it.

You don't decide to do something else about it.

I'm sure they've got more little bits and pieces like this and they've shown their wonderful ability to make a little of a lot of work.

He said something about it.

I just heard him and told him to go.

He didn't say I told him.

He never raised him.

He said it early on.

Well, the one he gives me is that early on.

He says I discussed this with him early on.

He said I went back and forth and thought I ought to do it.

The guess is that his office, he had somebody raise it with me, and I said under no circumstances should he do it.

Well, the point is, don't embarrass him about it.

I've got it now.

He said, do you think I should get out of it?

Should I cancel out?

I said, no, Bill, under no circumstances should you cancel out.

It's a mistake.

That would just give them that much more.

He said, well, I'm not going to do it.

But I'm very lucky he won't give the speech Colson wanted him to get.

But actually he can't because he only speaks for four minutes.

Oh, and Colson had a big speech.

Well, he can't do that.

Anyway, that's not Bill's wish.

That comment might do it.

Yeah.

But Bill will.

I imagine Bill will do it because he feels comfortable.

That's right.

Very fond of the celebration of the cross.

It must be frozen in a time that should be frozen, period.

I mean, just the way it is now.

What do you think?

I'm sure you do.

It's a crime for Henry to go park around over there and do nothing.

... ... ...

He's a terrible way that he's delivered an effective...

This guy could have made this comment a lot worse than they have.

He is not restable.

The argument for this settlement is that if you do that on the 26th, it obliterates the news for the rest of the campaign.

It's a good thing.

The Cuban Missile Crisis did to us in 62.

On that day, the election was over, even in the local election in California.

We had no way of navigating this.

It was all done.

It had one plus that kept Kennedy out of California, but it hasn't.

That's the only answer.

I'm not sure Kennedy-California would have helped.

It wouldn't make that much difference.

As a matter of fact, it certainly, whatever campaign we had going at that time, just got out of the way.

We were behind it moving up at that point.

We stopped right where we were.

Never moved up, never moved up.

And that thing will happen in this election.

On October 25th, if you make this announcement.

That'll freeze the election.

And it'll freeze it for local candidates.

Our people that are ahead will win.

Any of them that are behind will probably lose.

We'll get public attention.

Nobody will pay any attention to us.

The public attention will turn to the specifics.

First of all, a great sigh of relief.

There's going to be, there is going to be a hell of an impact when you say we will have a ceasefire tomorrow at midnight.

And we will bring all our troops home by the end of this year.

And all our POWs by the end of this year.

Nice.

If we ever come to them on that, then we'll do it by the end of this year.

The Kennedy area is on the Watergate.

Why does he start nose to nose?

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to call that.

Roll into the water and roll us on the water bill.

That's what they were trying to avoid.

They get a chance, they may not be able to do it.

Because of the quorum.

Like the Republicans on it quietly, sir.

Not to show like, you know, like the Democrats on the quorum.

We can't sustain it.

Even on a five-step farm, a five-step attempt.

This is a beauty of avoiding the farm.

We need to vote to override the farm.

They weren't there for a quorum.

That's too confusing.

They weren't there to have a vote.

That's different from hell.

There's no quorum.

There's no vote.

And the other way is that Congress had two years to do all this stuff.

I think I'm going to have a media test.

We'll go on back today.

It isn't white behind the average campaign.

As you know, the average campaign, we can't expect it on the line for the first three or four days.

In this case, though, we will not have a truly terrible fall.

I mean, we do a lot of mental strength.

You don't have the physical strength.

I mean, I would have gotten too caught.

I would have gotten bit.

I would have gotten lost.

I mean, it's not a good workout, but it won't be.

That would be it.

And you aren't as churned up because of the closures.

I guess we're churned up a bit because of these.

You can't personally join us, which will bother you.

And they don't bother me as much as I do others because I tend to be more detached about certain things.

I'm just more suspicious.

And also because I know it's a continental affair.

I don't think we have.

They've got them assholed with a book about it.

Oh, yeah.

They don't have yet.

Sure, we've got people within our ranks that we're... Well, there may be somebody like that that's writing a book.

No, I don't know who it is.

The temptation would be anybody claiming that kind of game would be using it.

Sure, now.

Now that there is...

I don't think it is because they have a triangle.

Yeah, with a lot of tough...

There's a lot of...

I mean, these four guys might be useful, but, you know, these little fellas that are...

They're in some soup that they... That's it.

Washington Post said it would be a million liters.

That makes it two to one.

They don't include it in the flavor guide.

It's just

I was just saying, in some ways, in the opinion that you're making is to go with the hottest horse in the corner bar.

He could be.

Well, good.

Okay, good luck.

Okay.

We'll settle through.