Conversation: 225-039
Prev:  225-038 Next: 225-040Start Date: 16-Nov-1972 2:23 PM
End Date: 16-Nov-1972 3:45 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Ehrlichman, John D.; Recording Device: Camp David Hard Wire
NARA Description:
On November 16, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 2:23 pm and 3:45 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 225-039 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 225-39 Date: November 16, 1972 Time: Unknown between 2:23 pm - 3:45 pm Location: Camp David Hard Wire The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman. -24- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) Second term reorganization -William P. Rogers tenure as Secretary of State -Haldeman’s forthcoming conversation with Rodgers -Plans -National Security -The President's decision -Changes in personnel -Time served in Cabinet -Leadership -George W. Romney -John A. Volpe -Peter G. Peterson -Departures -Roger’s career -Other Cabinet changes -Rogers C. B. Morton -Earl L. Butz -Richard G. Kleindienst -George P. Shultz -Tenures -Length -Shultz -Kleindienst -Butz -Peterson -Retentions -Justice Department -Butz -Natural resources -Schultz -Economics -The President’s forthcoming conversation with Rogers -Morton -Review of reorganization -Confidentiality -Melvin R. Laird -Successor to Rogers -The President’s forthcoming conversation with Rogers -[David] Kenneth Rush -25- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Nelson A. Rockefeller -John B. Connally -Work with Rogers -Rush -Continuity -The President’s forthcoming conversation with Rogers -Rogers’s career -Vietnam -Settlement agreement -Length in office -Middle East -Review of career -Departure -Leadership -The President’s personal interest -Persuasion -Work with Henry A. Kissinger -Vietnam -Settlement agreement -Credit -Haldeman’s forthcoming conversation with Rogers -The President’s forthcoming conversation with Rogers -Chart -The President’s deliberation -Replacement -Connally -Rockefeller -Continuity -Rush -Conditions Norman Chandler -Health -The President's recent phone call -Note Second term reorganization -Peter M. Flanigan -Retention -Treasury Department -26- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -White House -[Connally’s] view -State Department -Treasury Department -[Confirmation] problem -Herbert G. Klein -Note -Resignation -Forthcoming conversation with Haldeman -Communications office -Press Secretary -Changes in supervision ***************************************************************** [Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift] -Possible job offer -RNC communications director [End segment reviewed under deed of gift] ***************************************************************** -Klein’s qualifications -Ambassadorship to Mexico -RNC -Reorganization -Ambassadorship to Mexico -Private enterprise -US Information Agency [USIA] -James Leonard Reinsh -Connally recommendation -Support for the President -1972 election -Cox Broadcasting Corporation endorsement -Liberalism -John F. Kennedy media advisor -Liberalism -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] director -27- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Jerry V. Wilson -The President’s decision -Secondary education -Egil (“Bud”) Krogh, Jr.’s memorandum -Military service -US Marine Corps -Completion -Qualifications -Street crime -Kidnapping -Counterfeiting -Airplane vandalism [?] Second term reorganization -L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III -Job offer -Administrative ability -Under Secretaryship -Religion -Cabinet -Catholic appointees -Gray -Roy L. Ash -William E. Miller -Irish-American, Italian-American -Shultz -Visibility -[Helena M. (“Obie”) Shultz -Contacts with Catholic clergy -Ash -Shultz -Ash -Shultz -Contacts with Jesuit Catholic clergy -Flanigan, Ash -Italian-American appointees -Candidates -Chicago Law firm -Carl A. Pelletieri [?] -28- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Navaroski [sp?] [first name unknown] -Whitcomb [first name unknown] -Heinschweigel [sp?][first name unknown] -Commerce Department -Fredrick B. Dent -Textile industry -Support for the President -Age -Business Council -Gray -Internal Revenue Service [IRS] -Experience -Problems -Tax bar -IRS -William J. Casey -State Department -Importance -Loyalty -Johnnie M. Walters -Krogh -Unknown person -Dean of Duke University Law School, Joseph [T. Sneed] -Possible Supreme Court Appointment -Qualification -Political responsiveness -Franklyn C. (“Lyn”) Nofziger -Casey -Gray -State Department -Political signals -Casey’s interest -Connally -Under Secretary of State -Search for candidate -Casey’s aid -Catholics -Gray -Publicity -Ash -29- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Shultz -Office of Management and Budget [OMB] -Cabinet rank -Possible name change -Office of Executive Management -Chet Holifield -State Department -Under Secretary -Casey -Foreign Service Officers [FSOs] -Frank C. Carlucci -Under Secretary for Political Affiars - FSOs -Appointment -Political attitude -Chief of Protocol -James J. Reynolds -United Nations [UN] ambassadorship -European Economic Community [EEC] -[Peterson] -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO] ambassadorship -Peterson -Reaction of militarists, economists -David M. Kennedy -NATO ambassadorship -George H.W. Bush -Treasury Department -Deputy Secretary of Treasury -Bush -Shultz -Work with Ways and Means Committee -Charls E. Walker -Texas -Defense Department -Elliot L. Richardson -Advantages -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW] -Family Assistance Plan [FAP] -Busing -William P. Clements, Jr. -30- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Toughness -Connally -Richardson -Loyalty -Plans on HEW -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger -Attorney General -Deputy -William D. Ruckelshaus -Environmental Protection Agency [EPA] -John N. Mitchell -Miles J. Ambrose -Kleindienst -White House staff -Ruckelshaus -Possible US Senate candidacy -EPA -Department of Natural Resources [DNR] -Butz -Political ambitions -Credibility with environmentalists -Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD] -John F. Collins -Background -Irish Catholicism -William D. Eberle -Liberalism -Necessity for attacks on model cities, Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO] -Support -Community relations -States -Housing -New approach -Public housing -Appointment -Italian-American -Richard P. Cooley -Background -Catholicism -31- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -California -John W. Arbuckle -Stanford University -Transportation Department -Italian-American -HUD -Herbert F. DeSimone -Past work -Performance -Italian-American -Justice Department -Southerners -Southerners -Solicitor General -Charles A. Wright -University of Texas -Sneed -Duke University -Stanford University -Wright -Expertise -Constitutional law -Law Enforcement Assistance Administration [LEAA] -List -Fredric V. Malek -James T. Lynn -Under Secretary of the Commerce Department -Possible under secretary of HUD -Administrative duties -Super secretary -Promotion -Undersecretaries -Importance -Clayton Y. Cutter -Nebraska -Transportation Department -Labor Department -George Meany -Opposition to labor leader -Charles W. Colson -32- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Assistant Secretaries -Donald F. Rodgers -Labor leaders’ contact with the President -Colson’s office -Channel -Secretary of Labor role -Max M. Fisher’s view -Jew -Writing and research staff -Southerner -Richard W. Brannon -HEW -Patrick J. Buchanan -Labor -Leaders’ contact with the President -Channel -Colson -Leonard Garment -Role -Boards, commissions -Interior Department -Appointee age -Malek -Interest in cabinet position -Background -Ethnic background -Yugoslavia, Czech -Catholicism -Grandfather -Qualifications -Experience -[Harvard University Business School] -Business -[Triangle Corporation?] -Management consulting -Under Secretary of Transportation -Under Secretary of HUD -Ash -Background -California -33- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -South Carolina -Business -California -Interior Department -HUD -Transportation Department -Commerce Department -Dent -Southern background -Transportation Department -HUD -Requirements -Political and management skill -Rural development -Urban development -Transportation department -Ethnic -Ash -State Department -Compared to Casey -Toughness -Transportation Department -Interior Department -Energy crisis -Eberle -Business experience -John C. Whitaker -Eberle -Western background -Morton -Ambassadorship to Canada, Australia -English speaking places -Ambassadorship to NATO -Interior Department -Energy crisis -Connally -Morton -Connally’s view -Bush -Bush -34- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Under Secretary of Treasury -RNC chairmanship -Treasury Department -Interior Department Energy crisis -Interagency coordination -Domestic Council -The President’s involvement -Timing -Post-1972 election -Natural gas prices -Arms Control and Disarmament Agency [ACDA] -Qualifications -Negotiating -Gerard C. Smith -Qualification -Order taking -Budget cut -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson -Staff -Opposition to administration -Lynn -Negotiating skills -Knowledge -Arms -Foreign trade -Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty [SALT] II negotiations -SALT negotiations -Knowledge of disarmament -William C. Foster, Paul H. Nitze -Casey -Appointment -Bush -Kissinger -Under Secretary of Treasury -RNC chairmanship -Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] -Dr. James R. Schlesinger -Bush -35- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Treasury Department -Under secretary -Secretary -Under secretary -Importance -EPA -Ruckelshaus -Whitaker -Support for the President -Compared to Ruckelshaus -Credibility -Environmentalists -Toughness -National Park Service -Whitaker -Importance of job -Ronald H. Walker -Interior Department -Whitaker -Compared to Ruckelshaus -Loyalty -Ruckelshaus -Political ambitions -Illinois Senate race -1974 election -Adlai E. Stevenson, III -Everett M. Dirksen -Cost of Living Council [COLC] -Donald H. Rumsfeld -Shultz -Departures -Robert H. Finch -Rumsfeld -Flanigan -Klein -Timing -Colson -Concern about perception -Watergate -Conversation with Buchanan -36- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Law firm -Conversation with Laird -Law firm -Buchanan -Sensitivity of position -Accomplishments -New Majority -Retention -Risk -Conversation with the President -Timing -1972 election -Possible suit against the press -Possible suit against the press -New York Times v. Sullivan -Possible position as practicing lawyer -Possible trial -January 20, 1973 -Announcement -Interim -Concern about perception -Watergate -Trial -Impact -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon’s office -Michael J. Farrell -Memorandum -Plans -Constance M. (Cornell) (“Connie”) Stuart -Plans to White House -John S. Nidecker -Farrell -Competence -Departure from White House -Nidecker -Retention -Walker -Atomic Energy Commission [AEC] -Whitaker -John W. Rollins -37- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Ambassadorship to Jamaica - Ambassadorship to Jamaica -Vincent de Roulet -Ambassadorships -State Department recommendations -De Roulet -De Roulet -Support for the President -Reports on FSOs -Charles A. Meyer -State Department -Robert C. Hill -Assistant Secretary for Inter-American Affiars -New Hampshire -Ambassadorship to Spain -Performance -Loyalty -Under Secretary -Loyalty -Malek -Carlucci -Henry Cabot Lodge -Departure -Age -Rockefeller -Forthcoming telephone call from Ehrlichman -Meeting with the President [November 21, 1972] -Timing -Thanksgiving -Agenda -Study -Ehrlichman’s briefing of the President -Second term reorganization -Possible constitutional convention on Federal reorganization -Advisory panel on domestic affairs -Possible chairmanship -Irving Kristol -Daniel P. (“Pat”) Moynihan -38- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) The President's schedule -Meeting with Rogers -Time -Second term reorganization -Plan -Revision Second term reorganization -Rogers -Difficulty -Cabinet -1972 campaign -Hard work -Reward -Retention -Repaying the President -Duty The President’s schedule -Rogers -Meeting with President -Haldeman presence -Connally Haldeman left at 3:30 pm Second term reorganization -Rockefeller -Advisory panel on domestic affairs -Advantages -Resources -Views -Political clout -“Cosmetics” -1972 election -Problems -New programs -Summer youth corps -Rebuilding cities -Conservatives -39- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Human events -Sapol [sp?] [First name unknown] -Kristol -Edward C. Banfield -Membership -Mayor -Rockefeller’s role -Federal staff -Purpose -Revenue sharing -Ehrlichman’s forthcoming effort -Interior Department -Unknown person -Smokey the Bear -Robert J. Hitt -Performance -Title -Possible Under Secretary -Patricia R. Hitt -Departure -HEW -Whitaker -Loyalty -Malek -Loyalty -Ash -Work with White House -Possible Cabinet position -Possible meeting with the President -Experience -HUD -Mayors, public interest groups -HUD -Candidates -Requirements -Personal skills -Cutbacks -Mortgage bankers -Collins -Boston -40- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Colson -Qualifications -Mayoral performance -Background -Irish Catholic Democrat -View of Edward M. Kennedy -Polio -Boston chamber of commerce -Lecturing -Harvard University -Political experience, pragmatism -Low income housing program -Romney -Problems -Edward W. Brooke -Congressional amendment [Housing and Urban Development Act of 1972] -Rents -Links to salaries -Effect on housing authorities -Reforms -Voucher system -Vacant housing -Effect on housing market -British program -Congressional relations -Timing -Possible legislation -Weinberger -Weinberger -HEW -HUD -HUD -Preston Martin -Departure -Background -Education -Lecturing -Job performance -Requirements -41- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Business management -Italian-American, Catholic -Business management -Malek -Malek -Under secretary -Requirements -Congressional, mayoral, housing authorities relations -Romney -Job performance -Richard C. Van Dusen -Cooley -Background -Business experience -Catholicism -West -Italian-American -Justice Department -Solicitor General -Unknown Chicago lawyer [Pellettieri?] -Haldeman’s suggestion -Southerner -Wright -University of Texas -Busing -Robert H. Bork -Background -Conservatism -Law professor -Yale University -American Enterprise Institute [AEI] -Civil Rights Division -Personal appearance -Beard -HUD -Collins -Housing problem -Budget -Collins -Brooke -42- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -Alternative -Midwest -Personal attributes -Vigor -Eberle -Background -Boise-Cascade Corporation -American standard -Business ability -Character -Cooley -Interior Department -Italian-American -Transportation Department -[Volpe] replacement -Carlucci -Presence -Charisma -Volpe -Ambassadorship to Italy -Romney -Future with the administration -Relations with administration -Conversation with the President -Plans -Morton -Choices -NATO ambassadorship -Cabinet rank positions -First term appointments -Problems -UN ambassadorship -NATO ambassadorship -David Kennedy -Counselors -New Cabinet -Number -Functionality -Compared to honorary status -Haldeman -43- NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM Tape Subject Log (rev. Feb.-08) Conversation No. 225-39 (cont’d) -The President's schedule -1956 elections -Dwight D. Eisenhower’s schedule -Camp David Haldeman -Florida -Work -Klein -Klein -Retention -Ehrlichman -Retention -Problem -Ehrlichman, Haldeman, Kissinger -Control -The President’s confidence -Ehrlichman -Reappointment -Criticism -Domestic affairs -Public relations Ehrlichman left at 3:45 pm