{"conversationCode":"228-006","tapeNumber":228,"conversationNumber":6,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-228-006","startDateTime":"1972-11-20T19:05:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-11-20T19:21:00.000Z","startDate":"20-Nov-1972","startTime":"2:05 PM","endDate":"20-Nov-1972","endTime":"2:21 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On November 20, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 2:05 pm to 2:21 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 228-006 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDHW","recordingDevice":"Camp David Hard Wire","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":"5.2","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part II","chronReleaseDate":"2-Dec-2008","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 228-6\n\nDate: November 20, 1972\nTime: Between 2:05 pm - 2:21 pm\nLocation: Camp David Hard Wire\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n[See Conversation No. 155-17]\n\f                                            -28-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM","filename":["228-006.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"228-005","nextCode":"228-007","transcript":[{"start":0.27,"end":3.87,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":4.03,"end":15.52,"text":"I'm getting here in between a fight and I just wondered if you had any, uh, at that latest count yet?"},{"start":15.54,"end":17.76,"text":"I'll be denied anyway."},{"start":17.78,"end":17.86,"text":"Why?"},{"start":17.88,"end":21.93,"text":"In fact, there's no one ready to count."},{"start":21.95,"end":26.45,"text":"You gotta check, let us just check and know, check back and forth."},{"start":26.51,"end":28.19,"text":"Some of them not in yet, aren't that true?"},{"start":28.21,"end":29.09,"text":"We've got until December."},{"start":29.92,"end":36.75,"text":"I heard a report on the Brennan thing."},{"start":36.77,"end":37.25,"text":"It isn't him."},{"start":38.33,"end":41.81,"text":"I'm wondering about Ben's young."},{"start":41.83,"end":43.74,"text":"I hope he would pay me on this."},{"start":43.76,"end":44.48,"text":"How about Paul Hall?"},{"start":48.1,"end":48.58,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":48.8,"end":49.27,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":49.28,"end":50.13,"text":"Well, hell yes."},{"start":52.31,"end":55.01,"text":"I put one in transportation, Assistant Secretary."},{"start":56.68,"end":66.89,"text":"We're looking for a good transportation man for Teamster and Freeman."},{"start":67.03,"end":69.82,"text":"Man, this would be terrific."},{"start":69.84,"end":73.88,"text":"You tell him we'd love to have him, and so he lets us know, and you call fix it."},{"start":73.9,"end":75.54,"text":"The president is looking for a man at the assistant secretary level for Teamster."},{"start":75.56,"end":80.59,"text":"And if they prove themselves out, they go up from there."},{"start":80.61,"end":84.3,"text":"That's the way the president does it."},{"start":84.32,"end":84.7,"text":"We're just waiting."},{"start":84.8,"end":85.34,"text":"We're around 61."},{"start":87.06,"end":91.76,"text":"Is that it?"},{"start":94.22,"end":100.71,"text":"The UPI is more updated."},{"start":104.94,"end":113.53,"text":"It must be if it's kind of 61."},{"start":113.55,"end":113.95,"text":"The UPI is a 61 one."},{"start":113.97,"end":115.39,"text":"That's so far apart, Chuck, that the one must be taken after the other."},{"start":115.41,"end":116.11,"text":"Oh, it's a much earlier account."},{"start":116.13,"end":116.59,"text":"Sure is it?"},{"start":117.52,"end":129.57,"text":"I figured it's much higher than that, at 48."},{"start":129.59,"end":134.36,"text":"But it was earlier, it was 61.3 or 4 or something like that."},{"start":134.38,"end":141.47,"text":"But that was based on just a conglomeration on that time."},{"start":141.49,"end":142.79,"text":"Those UBI's have great teeth."},{"start":142.81,"end":143.37,"text":"They have, it's all they do."},{"start":143.39,"end":144.33,"text":"I'm always asked, is this, do we have teeth?"},{"start":144.6,"end":146.1,"text":"That's right, you do that and bring it up."},{"start":146.16,"end":154.53,"text":"Let me ask you, on the Meany proposition, I guess there isn't anything we can do on that."},{"start":154.61,"end":162.82,"text":"The last talk Schultz said, you wouldn't think that Meany would be against Brennan, would you?"},{"start":162.84,"end":166.37,"text":"100% we ought to do."},{"start":166.39,"end":166.65,"text":"All right."},{"start":166.93,"end":171.88,"text":"Well, my view is, let's talk tonight about it, and tomorrow you can talk to Brennan."},{"start":171.9,"end":174.3,"text":"Because, you see, I want you to make the call"},{"start":174.96,"end":185.71,"text":"So that he knows he's got a damn job."},{"start":185.73,"end":186.17,"text":"See, that's the thing."},{"start":186.19,"end":193.22,"text":"We're all sort of doing the same thing."},{"start":193.24,"end":193.76,"text":"See, that's the way it is."},{"start":193.78,"end":194.32,"text":"We're a fighting man being."},{"start":194.34,"end":194.46,"text":"Right?"},{"start":194.48,"end":194.6,"text":"Right."},{"start":194.62,"end":195.03,"text":"I'd love to have it."},{"start":195.04,"end":197.07,"text":"It's a curse."},{"start":197.09,"end":197.49,"text":"I'd love to have it."},{"start":199.06,"end":221.5,"text":"What else has developed politically over the weekend, Haynes?"},{"start":221.53,"end":223.63,"text":"Much you know about?"},{"start":224.33,"end":237.29,"text":"Now they're talking about Muskie's, Jay Muskie will step down, won't you?"},{"start":237.31,"end":247.87,"text":"You know, this fellow's still on the left, the guy from Oregon."},{"start":247.89,"end":248.91,"text":"What if we get south?"},{"start":248.93,"end":249.85,"text":"You know, we can't get anybody from the north."},{"start":249.87,"end":250.91,"text":"You know, we can't take Massachusetts."},{"start":250.93,"end":251.99,"text":"You can't take New York if you have nobody competent."},{"start":252.01,"end":253.05,"text":"And I must say, we don't have any candidates at all."},{"start":253.07,"end":253.41,"text":"We have to go up."},{"start":253.43,"end":253.94,"text":"We can't get on that now."},{"start":255.3,"end":272.08,"text":"What do you get in the White House?"},{"start":272.1,"end":277.19,"text":"Territory someplace, right?"},{"start":278.87,"end":280.69,"text":"We could do that."},{"start":280.71,"end":283.75,"text":"It's not even far and closer than our political empire."},{"start":285.27,"end":301.87,"text":"If you want to get employed in the White House, that would be the wrong signal."},{"start":301.89,"end":302.53,"text":"That would be the answer."},{"start":302.55,"end":305.89,"text":"If George Bush is taken, I don't think he would satisfy a lot of things."},{"start":305.92,"end":306.13,"text":"He's Texas."},{"start":306.15,"end":306.33,"text":"He's new."},{"start":306.36,"end":307.22,"text":"He ought to, you know, relatively speaking."},{"start":307.24,"end":308.76,"text":"He'll do what we say."},{"start":308.78,"end":312.64,"text":"You know, I really think this crap about..."},{"start":313.1,"end":332.13,"text":"The president is not helping the Republicans get elected, so we're at this point, and I guess to put something that stirs the country up, I don't know."},{"start":332.15,"end":335.31,"text":"John Collins, he says, he says, he says, if I campaigned more for it, if we didn't fight a lot, I wouldn't have won by as much, and they would have lost more."},{"start":335.33,"end":338.04,"text":"Remember the thing you were talking about yesterday, that all this bitching around, it will pose problems in dealing with the Congress."},{"start":338.61,"end":342.62,"text":"But on the other hand, they hurt me problems anyway, curiously enough."},{"start":342.81,"end":344.2,"text":"It doesn't make any difference how much you owe them."},{"start":344.22,"end":346.48,"text":"Very few of them are loyalists."},{"start":346.5,"end":352.44,"text":"They consult their interests, don't they?"},{"start":352.46,"end":352.56,"text":"Sure."},{"start":352.58,"end":353.02,"text":"Put our money in."},{"start":353.12,"end":353.91,"text":"But I went out there."},{"start":354.91,"end":355.37,"text":"I went in."},{"start":355.39,"end":358.21,"text":"It's an April 1 buyout, as I recall."},{"start":358.23,"end":359.79,"text":"Years ago."},{"start":359.81,"end":361.63,"text":"Before we got his opponents out."},{"start":361.65,"end":364.66,"text":"66 plus."},{"start":364.68,"end":365.92,"text":"66 to 68."},{"start":367.4,"end":395.35,"text":"68, that's right, but I worked on that thing."},{"start":395.37,"end":396.33,"text":"The diet is coming, you better watch out for it."},{"start":396.35,"end":397.19,"text":"I was just serving in the club, wasn't he?"},{"start":398.47,"end":402.71,"text":"But they really can't figure that we didn't do everything we could for Cato."},{"start":402.73,"end":406.7,"text":"For Christ's sakes, if I had gone to Delaware, I wouldn't have changed it."},{"start":406.84,"end":408.7,"text":"He just had a damn good young candidate run against him."},{"start":408.72,"end":411.65,"text":"In this case, I think of people that know Gordon well."},{"start":412.41,"end":418.8,"text":"This idea of Dominic, that Alec made some tough votes for the president."},{"start":418.82,"end":421.64,"text":"For Christ's sakes, if he was all that much to the president, why didn't you do it?"},{"start":421.66,"end":426.55,"text":"Run as well as the president."},{"start":426.95,"end":440.26,"text":"I spoke to Haldeman earlier and I said to him, Webster's the man, that we've got it true."},{"start":440.28,"end":441.02,"text":"That we can confirm him."},{"start":441.05,"end":443.13,"text":"The other thing, are you sure you will program him, Chairman?"},{"start":443.15,"end":447.07,"text":"Will he get in there?"},{"start":447.09,"end":447.27,"text":"Yes."},{"start":447.29,"end":447.59,"text":"All right."},{"start":448.33,"end":450.25,"text":"You're responsible for him, I understand."},{"start":450.35,"end":455.02,"text":"I don't want him to get in there and act like Walters and make Mitchell become Walters."},{"start":456.8,"end":477.8,"text":"You know, we've got Richardson lined up now."},{"start":477.82,"end":478.1,"text":"This is Floyd."},{"start":478.12,"end":479.02,"text":"It's going to be Richardson going to defense."},{"start":479.04,"end":480.74,"text":"Terry, who's a great man in protection, has been strong, which will be a good affair."},{"start":480.76,"end":481.54,"text":"Weinberger's going to go to the league."},{"start":481.56,"end":482.02,"text":"She's going to get him."},{"start":482.05,"end":482.95,"text":"And put Roy Ash in Weinberger's place."},{"start":482.97,"end":484.45,"text":"Now, that's going to be, that triple play, I think, is a beauty, I'm sure."},{"start":484.47,"end":485.85,"text":"Some people think Richardson's a dove, but I'll give it to you later."},{"start":486.89,"end":494.61,"text":"We'll see you tonight."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss personnel appointments and political strategy following the 1972 election. They cover potential Cabinet and sub-Cabinet placements, including the roles of Peter Brennan, Elliot Richardson, Caspar Weinberger, and Roy Ash. The conversation also touches on legislative relationships and the internal assessment of Republican electoral performance.","topics":["Personnel appointments","Cabinet reorganization","1972 election","Political strategy","Labor relations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T11:01:54.802Z"},"topicSlugs":["personnel-appointments","cabinet-reorganization","1972-election","political-strategy","labor-relations"],"audioDurationSec":500,"audioFiles":[{"file":"228-006.mp3","bytes":12002984,"durationSec":500,"bitrate":192047,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:36.205Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:07.501Z","transcriptGapSeconds":105,"transcriptGapShare":0.21,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/228-006.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/228-006","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/228/conversation-228-006","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}