Conversation 023-152

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I had a story that I think would be very good to get out.

I want you to handle it.

You can talk to Scali and tell him he can use it with either of the two networks, not CBS because Hoover hated them with an utter passion, but he could do it too with either NBC or ABC if he knows anybody that would

use it right it's a little human interest thing and then with a uh with a wire service you can uh talk to uh Ziegler about uh how to do it I mean maybe he'll want to put out something what triggered me on it was that uh when uh Pat Gray came in today his wife asked me a question she said uh first there were two there were two things actually she said that

You know, I had volunteered at the re-elected president thing, and I'm expecting to see somebody from Time magazine in Bonangelo this afternoon.

I wonder what I should do about it.

I said, you should by all means resign.

I said, you should point out that the president suggested that you do that because Mr. Hoover had always stayed

totally above or beyond partisan politics.

And so, of course, that line is a good one.

The second point, however, is more subtle and perhaps better yet.

Dan Rather was in to see Ziegler and was, according to Gray, and was pumping him about what about Nixon appointing a personal friend and crony and so forth to the FBI.

And I said, well,

First of all, that under no circumstances should he ever, Ziegler should not have talked to Rather, and nobody in this staff should ever talk to anybody from CBS.

That's an order from now on.

It's good to be done.

Good.

Now, the second point, though, I should, when you're asked the question, I said, here's the thing to say.

Yes, I'm a very, I've long been a professional worker with, co-worker with the president when I was assistant to Admiral Radford in the NSC days.

and, of course, the Justice Department.

But I said, as distinguished from Mr. Hoover, I've never been one of his personal friends.

He said, Mr. Hoover and the President were very close personal friends for 25 years.

And you can point out that Hoover and I exchange, we always exchange Christmas gifts, that he's spent many birthdays at our house, either in California, at Key Biscayne, where we often met in Florida, or at the White House.

He's been to Camp David.

He's been on the Sequoia.

in other words that we've been to the races together in other words and then I think you could go on to say that the relationship between President Nixon and Mr. Hoover going back 25 years was a that was a very close personal relationship and that the President considered Hoover among all of his government associates to be his closest personal friend

Now, that includes Eisenhower.

It includes anybody in the Congress.

I have no others, you know, with whom I have done all these things.

See what I mean?

Yes, I do indeed.

So he's a very close personal friend.

Now, you see, that does two things.

First, it points out the close personal friendship with Hoover, which is now done.

Nobody can squeal about that.

Right.

But it also points out the fact that Gray's connection with the president is totally different.

Hoover and I were on a first-name basis.

I said, Gray, you can tell him that.

I said, and as you know, you and I are not on a first-name basis.

He says, I'm well aware of that.

You mean, sir, up to and including these days?

I mean, of course, all the time you were vice president, you were Dick to him.

Yeah, I was Dick.

No, as president, he always... As vice president.

As vice president, he would call me Dick.

Uh-huh.

But as president, that was the only time he went into the Mr. President drill.

But it was first names for 20 years.

It was first name until I became president.

And I always called him Edgar, of course, but most people did that.

My point is that we were...

The only time we were not in first-name basis was after I became president.

But on the others, I mean, my relationship with Gray is a professional relationship, one of mutual respect only, whereas my relationship with Hoover was personal on a very close, and that he was my best personal friend in government, in government, of all the government people I've known.

That is quite a pretty strong statement.

Well, who else can you name?

Well, I mean, people will think of Bill Rogers or... Rogers?

Oh, Christ.

I mean, I don't exchange Christmas gifts with Rogers.

I mean, I haven't...

I've seen Hoover maybe ten times as much as I've seen Rogers.

See my point?

Right.

I do, indeed.

See, Hoover and I... And it goes back further.

Someone asked me...

This goes back to 1947.

My God, we've been...

I know.

I assumed you met when you were a young congressman.

That's right.

Doing his case.

Yes, I would.

But you see, we've done, we've been to each other's houses, we've done this and that, and he's been my closest, my longest, closest personal friend.

That, I get it.

But you see, the reason I'm doing this is not to build up the Hoover relationship, but more to build up the fact that Gray is not.

I understand.

And that Gray is versed nonpolitical by my direction, and second, that it's not personal.

I have no personal relationship with him, whatever, as a matter of fact.

As a matter of fact, he said that to me yesterday.

That's right.

One of mutual respect, but not personal, because I don't have personal relationships with people that I work with.

That's just my rule.

Right, right.

Okay?

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your good name.

Okay, bye.