Conversation 231-016

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You know?

That's what a guy is.

Yeah.

I made the right decision.

I sure did.

You know what I mean?

I know it just makes George cringe.

It makes Hutch cringe.

God damn it.

I just said, it's just time that we

I said, uh, I, I, I said, no, they, they, they are, I didn't, I didn't write Colson's reference.

I'm George.

I didn't get it hard.

Chuck must have done it.

I said, no, I want you to know that except that Chuck Colson, virtually everybody, my top advisors, uh, raised questions about you and I.

You heard anybody else?

I said, they don't raise questions about a farmer representing a farm or a business representative.

But you know, Bob, it's good for us to have a fellow like that around us.

Yeah, Peter Brennan, he's an Irish Catholic labor leader.

He's decent.

And sure, you might have some problems with me, but I might have different problems.

No, no, no, no.

I've got that smarter than a lot of people.

And Eisenhower didn't know Dirk.

Yeah.

I know Peter Briggs.

Yeah, I've known him for four years.

And Eisenhower was with Victor Dirk until I met him.

There was always Victor Dirk.

And he was a bummer.

Nine millionaires.

A friend is a different class of guy.

He's got the class.

Interesting.

Scali is not only Italian.

Not only Kappa, but he is a Democrat.

What did he say?

I didn't tell him.

I just told him to sit tight, that we've got something to do, and don't get anything.

What did he say?

Okay, I'll sit tight.

I said, you got anything to do with the meantime?

He said, you're damn right.

I'm trying to keep people who keep their goddamn mouths shut about Vietnam.

Good.

I said, well, that's a damn worthwhile nation for you.

If you can accomplish that, you will have done your country a good turn today.

So he's working on that.

I talked to Rogers and Clare about that.

I understand.

Oh, yeah, that's good.

Cal just called and said he would be pleased and highly honored to accept the Iran post.

And I deeply appreciate the offer.

His wife is very enthusiastic about it.

Does he want to go to March or go earlier?

He said he'd get into time.

Do you want to do it earlier?

Yes.

Okay.

I'll call him.

I think that, I think that, I think that, well, I think that we ought to get the other guy on, on Sunday.

And I think we've got to get Marlon out of there, into the Mideast thing.

I'll tell you what you have to do.

You've got to call Henry.

After, after, I'll tell Roger about Marlon, I guess you could say.

If he doesn't want to do it, then we'll borrow it out of there and put him into an assistant secretary shift.

And we've got to know whether or not we can move Faro through it.

You've got to reorganize state and the back country.

I think that's an internal problem, not an other side problem.

As to what specific country I decide.

Fine.

All right.

We want to tell Faro that we want to bring him back to the assistant secretary.

He's got to be told to go to the board of this.

And the Shah's got to be told to go to the board of this.

But we don't need to announce the health stuff right away.

We can just announce his departure.

No, I think we should .

Let's just wait.

All right.

You see, we've got to wait.

It'd be nice.

Well, we can announce .

No, no, no.

Well, I'd like to get .

We can say that the director, Holmes, after .

We'll take another assignment .

We can do that over there.

Great.

Rogers has talked with Irwin, and he was very pleased to be offered for us, but questions whether he's the right man for him because he doesn't speak French.

And wonders if it wouldn't be a problem.

And Bill was going to talk to him further later, and I was just thinking about it, and I was going to see about that, and he's talking to Alex today.

He's right.

We should send somebody.

It's very strange.

Yeah, that's interesting.

Okay, now let's hope that one of the more he sends this guy, he's going to speak French.

Uh, is it on me?

Why does this Mosbecker thing keep coming up in here?

Because he keeps working on Henry.

It's the only place it could have been.

That's what it is.

Sure.

Well, it's not Henry's choice to get a vowel again.

Henry has told me 15 times about how this Mosbecker wants something.

I know he wants something, but we should get him something to do with the vowels.

We gave it to him last time, and he hasn't done anything.

I don't mean, I, he didn't make a major contribution.

I don't know if he doesn't have major money, but the hell.

It's, uh, it's, uh, it's just, just right.

That's good.

You know, it's not one thing we do about the credit.

It's just, uh, I'm going to put a couple labor investors.

I'm not going to give them all the, all the, all the sands.

Yes, sir.

I'm going to put two labor leaders in this investor.

We're going to break into this later.

Now the other thing, Chuck, did he talk to you about Bozano and Rogers and all that?

Chuck had to leave with, what's his name, because of Chuck writing it out.

I have no problem with Chuck.

Chuck is right about the fact that Chuck's point that we need some capability.

Some capability.

Yeah.

What do you have in mind on that history?

where would it be?

Well, I've asked Chuck to work out his plan on it.

I've got some ideas, but I think it's better to get his evaluation of how you carry it on.

That's, we're going to get together.

Well, I don't know about Rogers.

I think Rogers definitely should be there.

But, if you put him over, if you put him over, Schultz is shot, you know.

Well, with that economic guy, which is the thing you were talking about, it would be a new me.

Another possibility would be there with the economic guy, but with his knowing what his charter would be.

But my point is,

I think Colson has another degree of reason that they've got to sit there together.

And he's probably right.

I'll tell you why.

He's probably right because they probably should be there, let me say, with the director of the Office of Information.

In other words, whoever has the client spot should have a couple of people there, and that's part of their job.

The director of the Office of Information should not be just one to inform the press.

It should be one to inform labor groups and ethnic groups.

See what I mean?

I think you could put a good black in there, too.

See?

That's the purpose of this.

That's where Scott is.

I think it's up to Clyde.

He said he was, you know, he got his lines out.

He didn't have any specific guests at the time.

His inclination was very strong that he wouldn't be going for USIA.

If we needed to move on, then we should go ahead.

And I said, we didn't.

Then how would we get his decision?

We didn't want to put any pressure on him.

Then why don't we handle his in terms of he's asking to take another, in other words, let's give him the idea that he's been asked to take another.

We have to.

Can we do that?

Isn't that the way to handle it?

Ask him if he would like to have a family that he can talk to his other people and say, they want me to take USIA, but I can't.

I don't give a damn if the USIA guy gets second choice or not.

A USIA agency that opens up and says, man, good job.

It looks like we'll have to deal with other people.

Yeah, on that note, I talked to Erling about it too.

I've covered both Erling and Charleston.

Erling and Charleston just sit down with Peterson right over.

Because Peterson had this idea of an ambassador at large based in Washington.

Erling was out of the question.

It's just that all he's trying to do is write a ticket for himself.

Well, he wants to stay in Washington.

Now, on commerce, do you want to go with that or do you want us to explore it with it?

Where did Don come from?

I'm a little afraid to ask.

I could ask him on the basis of it's got to be a southern thing.

If you want to hear that, yeah.

I think you should.

Don, we have to go south.

It has to be there.

with Scali and Brennan, we've got two Democrats, Bob.

Do you like that?

Yeah, that's why I'm simply on Scali as a Democrat.

Okay, I'll ask him.

Let me get us in a suit with this man.

No.

Can I ask him about that?

Yeah.

No, I'd say, I'd say if you have any names you'd like to submit, and then say not one name that has been submitted, but a

that they think would be very satisfactory to sell to the family.

Now I've got one other guy that popped up that looks extremely good, but he's got to check him out a little further.

He's a very successful businessman in New Orleans, I think.

And there is also a guy in Florida that's a possibility.

Is Florida a problem for you as far as not being

He's a southerner.

He's a...

He's a New Yorker.

New York Jew.

It's a guy in Jacksonville.

So that really is his town.

You're right.

Alright, my world is a little better.

I don't care a lot.

But we should hold on to that.

We should explore this a little further.

No.

That's why I stopped bringing him up tomorrow.

No, no, no, no.

I'm not quite ready.

But I want you to talk to Kendall.

And Kendall should be just happy to fly him anyway.

Yeah.

Because he got his Pepsi cold and the rush is all down.

And that's a big deal.

You've got to help him.

You can't just as you know.

Who is the best southerner?

You've got to be.

I was wondering if they were foolish for me to go down and then come back up here just to be here.

It would be a little easier for me to stay overnight in the White House and then go on down and

I don't think it makes it much difference on the campaign and they don't have the announcements.

You have to stay in a basic pattern up here, but there's no reason not to go down on that.

That's the State Department.

What are we announcing?

Rogers, Rush, Casey, Porter,

All right, why don't we go down?

I really feel that this is all going to come back up.

Yeah, then I've got a 45-minute helicopter ride down there.

Why don't we go down to the White House?

At what time?

Well, you leave here at about 2 or a little after 3.

3 o'clock meeting with Duke at 4 o'clock with the block at my station.

And then you have Ryland at 6 or whatever you want.

And I thought on Thursday we did the, uh, this budget group, which you don't have to spend any time with, because we've got to have them meet at 9 and the Chiefs at 10.

I had mentioned that I was not even watching from up here, but I was listening.

She never just said we moved it down there.

Because you came down to meet with Doug and, uh, well, certainly my, my, uh, press statement just to the acceptance campaign and then, you know, pretty much, uh, concrete what you're making.

Leon, we're doing this today and we'll do tomorrow without a unit, right, before you move down.

So that'll cover that.

Then you go down, we meet Thursday at the White House, Friday out of Florida.

Saturday out of Florida.

Right.

And then we're not going to announce anybody.

Yeah, Friday we're going to announce the economic thing.

Schultz will do that.

We'll announce it and then Schultz will fill in on how that sounds.

We'll announce slavery.

No, no.

The Schultz, just the new economic plan.

Yeah, and the Schultz sign saying on

Well, you'll be flying a CF thing, fitting in there, and Charles is an assistant for economic aid.

You get a little bit of the reorganization to start.

All right.

Without getting into it.

All right.

Deal.

Good.

It's a different kind of action, and then you get...

The White House staff will be in North Florida.

And that, we hope, gets the tutorial over, right?

Because the White House staff and police want to get on the record, get it out of the way.

What about the East Wing staff?

I don't know.

I don't have any idea what the call rate is.

I don't see whether she wants to have an announcement.

I would think she would want that done separately, if there's anything that could be done.

Because she doesn't seem to want to tie it.

I think she's right.

It's not your staff that should be announced by you.

I'll tell her that this will be announced by you.

She wants that.

Now the question, if Rumsfeld goes out of the cost of living thing, if Peters does take care of people in Rumsfeld and then they go again,

NATO should be somebody that I've been bashing in and out.

I don't want an uncertainty there.

I do the economic thing.

I think it's better.

I just think we cannot.

I didn't offer Rumsfeld the double shot.

Remember?

That's right, yeah.

That's what I, I wasn't there with that.

No, I thought you were going to go for an economic job.

Well, the economic guy is apparently a damn good man.

Well, he did put in.

So, I wouldn't keep that.

Well, why not bring him back here for Schultz?

Yeah.

The other thing is, look Bob, with Nagle, I just don't think I can play with Nagle that way.

And I don't know, I just think with Rumsfeld, uh,

I just, his goddamn attitude just doesn't, doesn't, doesn't set me down.

The recommendation on cost of living council is to bring Dunlop in, and then, uh, talk it up to labor, which would not be a good deal, but you can do it for them, and that's excellent.

Excellent.

So we can go ahead with that.

Excellent.

Thank you.

How about putting, how about putting Hutch in there?

And then moving, and then getting, uh,

I'm going to have

come up tomorrow, so you'll have been up on the hill.

You don't need to see him, but maybe you will.

Sure, I'll see him.

But, uh, what does this mean?

Well, what he wants to do, I've got to talk to him.

I want to have some time before you'll see him.

Sure, in any event.

But who else do I see?

You have, uh, Brenninger.

And, uh, in the morning, and then Bob Brown, if you wanted to see him before you went down.

I think it is.

So you have him come up and then go back down with you.

And so we were going to have him at 1.30 and then figure out leaving here at 5.00.

Good.

And then your meeting's down there.

You can stay down there.

And the budget group at 9.00, 5.30, you can drop by whenever you want.

And she's at 10.00.

thursday morning whatever you want after that night you ought to not stay around there though you get bogged down you know you can go off the uh price what he wants to do right i don't know whether this makes any sense at all i don't know he's taking on a role that what he wanted to do two years ago he said that that didn't because he moved into his editor job of house philosopher

Where his idea would be, on the one hand, to bring your seminal ideas, and on the other hand, to distill and crystallize on paper the Nixon philosophy.

And he says that there's not a clear understanding of the Nixon philosophy within the administration, let alone in the country.

The problem is whether he understands it.

And I think he probably does, even though he doesn't agree with all of them.

He says that so that what do appear as inconsistencies can be seen as parts of a really remarkably consistent whole.

This would require a great deal of time for reading, reflection, and writing, a great deal of freedom from day-to-day routine, and a great deal out of direct departmental responsibilities.

He said a less than ideal but probably workable alternative would be to divide his time with a supervisory rain on him.

That's right.

I think that's a good idea, and then he would be available to do

I made your speech.

That's right.

And that's good.

He says, well, what are you?

I said, well, he calls it a counselor's role.

You don't want to get to counselor, but he can be a special assistant to the president, which is we're going to try and get rid of this whole stack of titles and get down to just, you know, God's going to be a special assistant to the president.

He would be a special assistant to the president.

Sapphire, same.

For the long time he's there, yeah.

Just let it be that, you know, a sapphire, you're going to have him with the understanding that he's going to write the book, a book for me.

He's going to leave and I'm going to stay through the inaugural and maybe, you know, a few weeks to just try and help my tone and ideas and start to try to do it in terms of, you know,

Ray says, I think the philosopher's role should have some substantial input in the policy process, suggesting directions, looking at proposals from the point of view of their consistency with the Nixon approach.

That's right.

Do you want a guy that's as far left as Ray in that role?

He may not be as far left as he was in the beginning.

Maybe.

I think it's a good idea.

I think they give somebody to the left.

Somebody who leads.

And of course you've got Buchanan in there as the philosopher on the run.

That's right.

And you look at him sort of as though you've got to follow Buchanan as much as you can to him.

Yeah.

Good.

That's fine.

Now, you then get down to...

We're going to open it.

Yeah.

I don't know how we do that.

I really don't.

I'm just...

I'm just running the machinery and getting the paperwork out.

The guy that he's got, the idea of hurting his super, I think we can keep him.

If you'll say.

I've got to talk to Ray.

I just...

I...

I don't think either is the answer.

I don't think it's strongly enough on your wavelength.

Well, I'll tell you, this is different.

If you go for editor, for the written stuff, now look at that as separate from the speechwriter, and then go on the basis that those aren't your speechwriters.

You've got to have a speechwriter on a totally separate basis.

Or use Ray for some speeches.

You can't really do that.

You have to do this because it's...

He's got to have somebody get out that favor with him, not as big a staff as we ever had.

One of them got on the captain, I think.

He's got to have somebody.

You know, with Dale, getting the client drunk, that was one time.

That's what he liked to do.

I don't know.

I would think he would.

He's better with us, too.

I mean, that's

He's such a great job outside.

He has problems inside because of insecurity.

Is that really it?

No, this real problem is he is absolutely a good solo operator.

He has absolutely no ability to organize anything and run anything.

He fails.

He can shuffle around.

I would assume Dale does.

Dale's got a hell of a lot better track record than outside.

I don't think you could break Dale and put him under Sigler.

Now, you put him beside Sigler.

Besides Sigler, but let me understand it.

You can totally pull up or you can work it out.

I don't think Dale would try to interrupt.

So I just climbed up.

I don't want a situation where if Dale is there, well, he should sit in on meetings.

I don't want to have those businesses where when I bring the congressional leaders, everybody comes in.

Like, I just got to cut that down.

I just want Ziegler and that's all.

You know, we can set up the plan of maintenance.

What do you want to do?

On the Rose Bowl, just so you know, the tournament suggested that what they would like to do is have a

a special car with Pat Nixon as the guest of honor of the Tournament of Roses.

And she would ride it, and they have it covered with a blanket of roses, just like the Queen's car and the Marshal's car.

The Queen's envelope would be like the Marshal's car and the President's car, the President's Tournament.

And then she would, the Marshal would, at the gate, she would ride through the route of the parade, which they suggest now, if she doesn't want to, she can sit in the sand.

You know, she should ride in the sand.

Riding would be much better.

And at the gate, they would,

come in and circle the track.

You know, she'd come in with the queen comes in and the president of the tournament and the grand marshal, and she would come in as a special guest of honor.

But then they would say, and they announced her when she comes in, the University of Southern California's prime, our first alumna, the first lady of America.

Yeah, that was a good announcement.

She'd come in, and then the president of the tournament would turn her over to the president of USC, and when she'd arrive at the SC section, and they'd present her, you know, and the president of SC would then take her to his box, and she'd sit with him for the game, so that she would be not with the tournament, and then the grand marshal would sit with the tournament president.

Sure.

And that makes, ties Pat right into the SC thing for the game.

And, uh,

The thing now is we need an indication from her as to whether she wants to do it or not.

How do we get to her?

Now, the way that has been done, I know this will, you know, Mike, he's the best guy I know, is Klein, who has both the contact with the gentleman and with SC.

So I don't mind having her talk to Julie about this, because Julie called him on something else, and he raised it, and he said that it was his interest, and Julie said she would raise it with her mother as long as it came up.

Okay, then why don't you have her... You can just call Pat.

You can just call Pat and say they want to honor her.

They want to honor her.

It's never been done before.

It's the guest of honor in Southern Cal.

It's to honor her as their alumna.

All the right and the great.

It's perfect for John Wayne Marshall.

That's great.

And then pointing out that I would not agree.

I think that would really not play the game properly.

You agree now that I have to go.

I think you can go to the game.

I agree.

You will not go.

And we just say, this is her day.

You didn't want to go.

So that I don't stay.

Martha, do you want to keep going on it?

No, I'll be back to Florida.

I'm back to it for a reason.

I just don't want to go through the horror at Christmas time with the drowns of my brother.

Oh, okay.

Separately, I don't know.

She just goes out.

I don't know.

She's not on Friday nights.

She goes out for that, too.

It's a special event.

She comes back.

She would be in Florida for Christmas.

I would stay in Florida for Christmas.

I thought a lot about the California thing when I talked to you.

Maybe you'll have a little too much to read.

You see, Bob, it's a goddamn unpleasant.

It's out there, too.

In which we always had a really horrible and un-Christmas-like day.

We had a lighting problem.

I had the lighting jacked down.

And I'm fucking the hell out of it.

Going up to see all the relatives of mine.

So what does it seem?

I don't know.

But you see the problem.

I like the herb though, to do this.

Okay.

Now, I want to talk to him and I'll say that we'll keep USIA open until he's ready to decide, you see.

Right?

And the herb, the announcement he's going to say, you know, just as a, just as a, let me suggest this, just so that you can see that, what you had to say about my version also.

You're not replacing Colson, are you?

Let's see how it works out.

Let Herb say what he's saying.

He's going to look at it in terms of what Colson does.

All right, fine.

And you say he stays.

He stays through the inauguration.

But if you could take it up with Pat, very enthusiastically, that this is something that they'd like to do, and so forth and so on.

Uh, I don't know what the heck Julie takes off and says, you know, she's gone.

Oh, okay.

But anyway, can you man please do a little more?

Yeah, you can take it up with her directly.

I'll hit her on it tomorrow.

Okay, if she doesn't want to do it, it's fine.

It's a nice thing to do.

SRG ought to do it.

But she'll get a hell of a reception.

It's not a great issue.

A hell of a reception.

It's a good way to get that.

Well, today, one of these years, I'd like to do that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mitchell talked with him.

Joel was very un-receptive and un-communicated with Mitchell.

Obviously he didn't have any interest in discussing with Mitchell.

Mitchell went through the whole pitch that he was going to make.

He built up all the stories of people around the country, starting with Barack Obama and going down the list and sort of checkpoints here and there.

There should be a full-time professional chairman.

And then he also went through the whole pitch of the advantage to know what was getting out.

That he should get out on the top of the victory and get involved in the party fights from there on.

The party fights and all that sort of stuff.

The only response that he got from Dole is, well, yeah, I understand that.

He says, that's what I'll have to kick around when I talk to this president.

So I'm going to have to kick that around.

Now, he says, as a matter of advice, Mitchell's advice on how to deal with it, he says, first of all, he does think that being a problem makes us go a little by the concept of moving out.

That what he wants to do, apparently, and he told Mitchell, is stay for a year and then go out.

And that, of course, is absurd.

Mitchell told him that, that, you know, for his own sake, the party's sake, and everything else.

That would make no sense at all.

And obviously, you can't say more than that.

You're just going to run for office next year.

Everybody will know it.

And he says you should give him some flattery.

Yeah, I will.

He is meant because you didn't mention the National Committee of the Shore.

So that's one little sore point.

So you should don't refer to that and make the point, what a great job you've done.

leading the charge and the committee and so on.

And that he ought to get out while he's on top.

That you look forward to working with him in the Senate.

You're looking forward to getting back into his role in the Senate where he was, you know, your strong right arm up there and the great attack guy and how valuable he is on the Senate floor.

And that

I bet that you'd be very firm in this, that a change has got to be made, that you will look for any sign of whether you question this or not.

And Mitchell has said there's no question, but he says he'd be looking to see whether that's your signal.

And he feels very strongly you should not tell him about Bush at this time.

Oh, no, no, no.

And that you should simply say that, get him set on the plan to go.

You should say that you want him to get the full credit through the inaugural.

And Paul, the inaugural is the climax of the campaign, of course.

And Bill should stay on as chairman.

He should announce that the committee meeting he's presiding in, the new chairman of the elected, effective February 1st.

So that Bill stays in actual focus as chairman for the inaugural ceremony.

That you want him to be your chairman for the inaugural.

And the other thing he's worried about is these newspaper stories about Bill Brock and Ken Reese.

You know, Bill's worried about it.

Yeah, and he doesn't want the appearance that the re-election committee is taking over the national committee.

Correct.

And you, Mitchell says that you should make clear the point that you are going to seek for the committee thing or that you're going to have recommended the committee seek a very high level, full-time, outside professional chairman, not someone who is involved in running your campaign.

You don't want any of your campaign people to move into it.

Correct.

And that'll make him feel good, because I guess there's a thing there that you would be indicating that the committee, the National Committee, failed in your campaign committee, and I should take it over.

So that's Mitchell's view on it.

I've got it written down, but I don't think it's partially true, of course, that the National Committee did give him a right.

But it's very much true.

If you start looking at the analysis, it's now quite clear.

It's becoming more and more clear that, well, what happened is that we did a

uh...

Whichever you want.

I think so.

I think maybe it's better to have him come.

He expects me to be there.

I don't think that's any problem.

I won't say anything.

And they just said I should not be with him ahead of time.

He should come right in to see me again.

That's what I'm going to do.

I don't make any comments.

And I won't make any comments.

I'm just sitting there.

I just remember it.

That's what I'm going to do.

Also, I'll tell you what I'll do.

I'll say that I want to help him.

And I think that one thing I can do is to find a good fellow abroad.

Yeah.

Next year, later next year, the country's clear of the chairmanship of the back of the chairmanship.

And at a time when we're working to ascend to the East, we'll give them a trip that will be significant abroad.

I don't know.

I'm not sure.

That's a good idea.

I love that.

There you go.

You see, this will give me a hell of a build-up first.

Don't tell them what country.

No, no, no.

You want to run through the undersecretary?

In agriculture, the recommendation after going through all the possible reasons is you can't go on because of the strong southern support.

And because he'll leave in a year anyway, he's going to go back and run for governor.

And he's good on both political and substance, and he'll cover the base with butts.

So, I understand.

Yes, there is.

Both with him and by the other appointments, all the assistant secretaries will be changed.

And we've got a whole rundown on that, and we talked to Campbell about that it's got to be changed.

No, I think John should go on.

You know, if he doesn't want that, that's as high as he's going to get right now.

He just shouldn't stay.

Another possibility is just, I think the remote will cut out his name.

I think it's worth considering as ABC.

John is, I mean, he just, he's got to have a little more reputation in that area.

He's got a hell of an idea for ABC.

If you want to be imaginative, help Dixie D. Ray, the woman that we have on there, who is damn good.

And make a woman chairman would be a hell of a spot.

She's a good one of your women's singles and she is totally qualified.

She loves you and thinks she's great.

That's what I think of the agency.

I'm excited about it right now.

At the borough, we've got to make women leaders.

Commerce, we've got to go back.

We're going for a new list.

It kind of depends on who we end up with as secretary.

So we're still looking at that.

Labor...

We're getting more details, but the guy that looks best is the assistant secretary for administration is in there now by the name of Zod, who is a damn good manager, knows the department well.

He's our guy.

We put him in just a short while ago.

Total Nixon loyalist.

Yeah.

We're bringing a new man in who's a labor man.

We checked him out.

I think so, but I want him to do some more checking.

We're doing some more checking.

We've got to have somebody that knows the department.

Because you can't put Brad in an entirely routine field just to get called.

Right.

That's it.

Well, he thought of Kurt Comstead, but he's only the guy to run the department on.

And, uh, well, he can't accept it, but he was the best.

Well, he wouldn't count if he were his.

Yeah.

I'll just wait and see what he wants to see.

He may want to go out.

He said, yeah, but he's in a position where he might want to go out and take about the top fees there are on that.

Yeah.

Yeah, there is.

We haven't gotten into that yet.

There are ways.

Could he be counsel?

He's a lawyer, isn't he?

Could he move into the...

uh if you want somebody in the federal trade commission right on top there that's possible okay we've got one possibility over at omb and then

some very good possibilities from outside, and the thought is probably to bring in an outside guy.

Yes, Hunter Weinberger.

Weinberger knows the outside, but he needs somebody that isn't just an old-time guy.

In HUD, the best recommendation we're still checking in is Jack Sheehan, who you put on the Fed.

He's the guy from Kentucky that we put into the Fed.

But he's young, 42, very tough, hard-nosed manager.

We think he would, and that would also give us a Fed appointment for the Southern District, which means we get another Southerner on.

We could bring a Southerner into the Fed, get a good banker.

And that, Arch Davis might take.

See, while he couldn't take a cabinet post because of the strain on it, sitting on the Fed might be something this doctor would let him take.

And as the biggest banker in the South, he might be in pretty good mood.

That's great.

He can do it.

Davis can do it.

That's going to be great.

Okay.

After going round and round, Bud Krogh is what they call him.

He's a good young guy that's our man.

You've got a new secretary, so you've got to run the department.

And then the rest are state treasury.

The new names come in.

The new names are coming.

All the assistant secretary posts.

I told Brennan today, we're looking for...

Okay, then in the agencies, IRS, we're going with George Webster.

ABC will go with Dixie Ray.

The CIA will go with Schlesinger.

We left him in limbo, but you're talking to Kiva.

Do you want to do that?

AID, we should make a change.

That might be a place to move McConverter if you want to move him out into something.

You've got to tell us what he's doing.

We've got to get a stronger person.

Make McConverter ambassador.

Okay.

That's fine.

He'd be a good ambassador.

We owe him something, but he should be out.

The only reason for that is that he's one of the guys we know as our guy in the foreign service.

He is weak, though.

Why is Mitchell down?

I don't know.

Okay.

I'll find out.

No, no, no.

Mitchell told me he was down.

Don't ask Mitchell because then you're stuck with not doing anything for him.

I'm just asking.

Don't get into it.

I think McComber is fine for an ambassador.

But AID should have a stronger business oriented.

Ask Kendall.

We've got a list of people, the problem is what kind of guy you want there.

Henry's pushing Secor Brown back to the CAB, which is a possibility.

Brown has been good on most things.

He is somewhat independent, as he should be at the CAB.

They think he would not be so necessarily if he were in a place where he's supposed to be in control.

Do you know anything about the services?

I don't know.

Apparently he does, or Henry thinks he does, or he's got good readings on them or something like that.

But if you really cut, really clean house with him, that's the point you're seeing.

Well, he wouldn't put anybody in.

When it grasped that, like Scoop Jackson, he said, you know, what about Scoop Jackson's guy from Europe that he suggested for the job?

And they checked Scoop Jackson's two or three men.

Henry's got that list, and he may be just hiding it from us, you see?

Tell him out to get the names Jackson, to get the word from Henry, okay?

And just to get an idea of people in different directions, if you wanted to go to a...

young loyalist with some experience, David Young.

Right.

The young lawyer.

Right.

If you want to go a different way, an old-timer with some outside distinction, Leo Turn.

Active?

No.

Maybe too much for some.

You must have been pretty hard-line, I see.

That's tied to you as your hard-line on the men's side.

I presume we've been caught up.

Well,

I do not want to offer Rumsfeld that I don't mind him sending him a Geneva job.

So what I would like to do, I mean, if we could, I realize the guy, finally it's all for the guy that we found over there already in the European community.

but I'm not sure we really ought to offer them any of those damn jobs I don't know, I just don't know but I think that I think that we ought to put Hodgson in, basically to the European community and bring this all back and bring him back and work with George on the international stuff see if he could, see if George could bring him in there on international stuff and then I'd like to see Kern go

then churn would be very good at payroll.

I think that's a brilliant suggestion.

Brilliant suggestion.

Okay, now another thing on active, if you want to go to a technician, it would be a guy like Bill McGruder.

You know, your SST man.

As an interesting parlay, if you want to do it, a guy like Johnny Foster.

That's a good signal type move, and Foster has all saleable credentials, of course, and Foster could go to active.

Provided Foster would clean house.

How about Foster being a negotiator?

They have acted different than the Smith guy.

They're two different people.

Yes, it can be separated.

Smith has both jobs.

So I think we should separate the races and have one.

They have actors.

I think Foster, an actor, would be damn good, actually.

He's a McNamara type.

But on the other hand, he is not a soft head.

which were, you know, you're stuck with for a while anyway.

Interesting thought, Ken Reeves.

Signal to the young voters.

Do what he's told.

He's a good politician.

Couldn't want to do that rather than stay in politics.

Apparently he'd like to do it.

For at least, you know, a while.

So...

I guess just the idea of joining the Republican Party for a vote, there must be some other people.

No, there are plenty of other people.

We've got some stuff on restructuring.

The region's fine.

And EEOC, the recommendation is that we keep Brown.

Absolutely.

He's done what we've told him.

Absolutely.

We need to block their... Yeah, I have... You might have to go to the end of the court sometime.

On EFA, they're recommending we keep Roberts House.

For now, at least.

I agree.

EEOC...

We don't have a guy where our thing now is to move to a loyalist with adequate credentials to him, or like one of the advance men or something that has a senior type advance man who has, but who isn't an emperor.

Right.

Okay.

And move Sanchez over to a, that's another, you know, us, I was going to say, I had an idea.

I had some ideas to put him over with a HUD or something, you know.

OEP.

It does require confirmation.

So that is the possibility for Pat Gray.

I want to send him out to be confirmed.

I wonder, in his case, if he goes for the FBI, then I think it's a different kettle of fish.

But if he goes to... Another thing, another possibility for him.

It's natal.

But you see, I think in his case, as distinguished from Flannigan's case, I don't really believe that they're going to chop an old Pat Gray for that.

Mitchell, incidentally, feels very strongly that Gray would be a serious mistake to keep at the FBI.

Totally disagrees with Flannigan's.

And he says...

He also says that Klein, he says, that's the president's decision, not Dick's, and I don't think Dick should even have his numbers into that.

What did he think about the cop?

He said no on him.

He said he's a marvelous, you know, same thing everybody says.

He's not a marvelous guy, but not for that.

So do we have anybody for him?

No.

I just don't think that OEP...

If you want a politician, we were thinking about a politician.

A Louie Nunn type of guy.

OEP would be good for Gray if he wanted to stay in Washington.

We could offer him that.

Or Mayo if he wanted to go there.

Here you can leave Cluffy.

He's okay and you can't go any further up.

How about Louie Nunn at GSA?

Because that's another place you need a politician.

Yeah, there's a damn good job for one of our younger guys.

Just somebody that'll do everything that we want.

Just a young loyalist.

Hello, good job for somebody.

I think you're right.

He wants to make money.

At USIA, we had sort of an interesting, an interesting bag again, as possibilities.

One is Richard Harkness.

No.

who's been doing the drug thing and been doing this a hell of a good job.

I know, I know, but he's got a voice problem.

Yes, he does.

Oh, he speaks much better, you know.

And he's too old.

He is.

Leonard Wrench, who was, you know, on the Cox Broadcasting, had that argument with that, in my view, as he was Kennedy's television man.

And if Teddy goes, I think Wrench would have a tough time.

He sure as hell don't want USIA in the hands of the opposition.

I don't think so.

Arrange for something else on the advisory committee of the USIA or something like that would be fine.

And we have a client, of course, Frank Dale.

Thank you, the chairman of the advisory committee.

Throw that fellow a slant knock.

Ask for direction of the chairman of the advisory committee.

Frank Dale could do USIA.

Frank Dale would be a possibility.

Jim Keogh, if you want just to oil us to stay on top of it.

Jim would like to come back into something.

He'd be the first choice.

Because basically, he's a loyalist.

He's tough.

He'd be awfully good.

Yes, sir.

And he's got the credentials.

It's a good one.

Nobody can fault that one.

Yeah.

And Jim would love it.

Yeah.

He was the best man.

We've got a lot of people outside.

Well, that's very helpful.

That gives us a rundown.

We're back to the drawing board on those.

Yeah.

Well, as we move down, it's getting better, though, because we're getting down to where we've got a lot of people that are qualified.

When you get to the top of it, it's sort of a purified atmosphere.

I just wonder, you know, I like this, this nail point for us.

Frankly, I hear someone.

It doesn't go, just, that's why I want it decided.

I don't want, you know, we'll get it decided.

I don't think you'll take it.

No.

That's all right.

Mitchell said you're out of your mind to put Ambrose in instead of the attorney general.

He's totally untrustworthy.

I don't even know this one.

He said when he goes up for confirmation, how would you explain his having been a house guest of a gun runner in Texas who is a dope peddler?

Well, we've got somebody else in mind now.

Wilson at the bureau, he says he's lacking breadth and scope.

He'd be sunk in the bureau.

He couldn't cope with the nuances.

He said, you ought to go back to the drawing board on that.

And he said, you've got two requisites.

One, he's got to, first of all, be completely the president's man.

And secondly, he said, you've got to be absolutely sure he's got the ability to handle a hero.

And that takes a hell of a taste of me.

First, he's got to be, I've got these things.

He must be the president's man.

That's what he, of course, said.

Second, he can't, however, be just a crummy for the president's man.

Third, he must be a lawyer.

And finally, he must be an administrator.

He's got to be a damn good political bureaucrat because he's got to be able to operate.

A political administrator.

Boy, it's hard to find other questions.

So does that fellow out there in California do it?

Oh, I don't know.

Oh, that kind of stuff.

Well, he's a top lawyer.

He's a top lawyer.

He's run for district attorney.

He's been district attorney.

He's a strong attorney.

Why would you worry about that?

FBI, that locks him up.

Going another way.

Bill Smith.

That's not a corporate lawyer.

I think you might.

That's the Attorney General of Missouri.

Right here, that's 70.

Right here.

I think he ran again this time.

Oh, did he?

I didn't realize that.

Well, he kept on running for something, and I think this guy, I mean, he lost.

He ran and lost.

What impressed me was the general of Arizona, for whatever that's word.

That's an offbeat thing, but God damn, he was an impressive fellow.

I had a meeting.

However, as the class proceeds and so forth, he's considered to be soft-headed by some.

Why don't you start around the track?

Why don't you start with Finch?

I'd say, now look, whether Finch looks regular, but he looks special.

What do you think?

Better be loyal.

Do you agree?

Yes.

Mr.

Bench, please.

Mr. Hall, I want to talk to you.

I've got a ring here.

It's just a ring here.

Mitchell's right.

I think I need to police my own work.

Look at that.

I think it's the Watergate stuff.

He thinks that he hasn't done a good job at the Bureau.

Well, that's great to do, eh?

I may be wrong, but you think that on confirmation, they must go to the Watergate auction, yeah?

Well, as Clayton said, I'm not sure it's better if they do.

Because it's a hell of a good record.

Yeah.

It's their own investigation.

They've never had a lot of time to say it.

That's right.

We just can't split it up.

I think you have a bigger problem with this being a political country than you do at FBI.

Yeah, but you don't have that problem with the other government.

You see, looking at the ACTA one, the OAP one, the OAP one,

It's frankly the best job because it's in the White House.

And he'd be very useful.

He'd be very useful if he was a political guest.

And he could do well there.

There would be something where he could serve the country.

He could talk to Henry about it through the term.

But who else did he mention there?

Also, he could talk to... You've got to talk to Schultz right away to see if we can open up the

If we can open up the, uh, the European community job.

Ground, that Schultz should have, should call me back as soon as he wants.

I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just,

He knew he could have it, though.

Oh, he had it.

He had it in Helms' lifespan.

As soon as that... Henry, if you will, you've got to let him in on the game.

It's on the greatest topic.

Helms threw it wrong.

He's going to take it.

He knows about what you're saying.

Yep.

I guess.

I think.

Last I heard he was in California.

Always totally available to us.

That's awesome.

See, everybody has his own way of doing things.

Yeah, you have ten people to talk to, about who to talk to.

They've all done a hell of a good job.

The rest is fearing so much for themselves in this campaign.

The National Committee of Success is in their hands.

We have to realize that if we elect the National Committee, we will want the election.

but not as much.

I mean, it just isn't much of an outfit.

Like, you wouldn't have had your new majority if you would have been able to do it.

What?

Some of the Democrats said it's one moment that you wouldn't have the nose-up that you have now.

It isn't really hard to listen to the sensitivities of people.

You should have mentioned it.

What do you go down to?

You mentioned that you, uh,

Just remember, what about Connelly?

He said he wanted to see you this week.

Do you want to see him in Florida, which would be easier for him then?

Friday morning.

Friday morning, Thursday afternoon.

Are you going to try and go over to Walker's at all?

Well, I want to say if the afternoon is open.

Okay.

In Florida.

If the afternoon is in, the evening is open.

We'll see.

Probably if I went to the walkers, I'd go Saturday.

You've got Henry coming Saturday.

I'd go Saturday afternoon.

Okay, it's, uh, it's interesting because it's all going to go either Friday morning or Saturday morning if you'd like to come.

And if neither of those dates is good, what about Thursday morning?

He might be going to Jamaica for the weekend.

He's going to come by Friday morning.

Or I guess he's going to do it Thursday.

Thursday afternoon.

You know what's pretty interesting?

I don't think so.

It's a little bit of a burden for him.

I would say he's very sensitive.

How long do you have to send it to the chiefs?

One hour.

Then you just purely buy it.

Purely buy it.

That's it.

The Joint Chiefs Thursday morning.

What else?

I leave at 12.

I'll be there at 3.

3 o'clock.

I thought I'd give you an address.

3 o'clock Thursday afternoon.

10 or 11.

He can pick his time.

10 o'clock.

10 or 11.

Drive your 7.

I'm telling you, Kenley is going to be there if it's of any interest to him on Saturday morning.

And he'd like to be able to come down.

And Schultz is going to be there.

In case he's like, if there's anything he'd like to, I might announce over to him on Monday.

And that's what they do.

All of them probably are ready.

At this time, it takes some assignments in the international economic area.

I'm going back to Schultz's story.

He's telling me about this.

I don't want him.

The first instance, that's right.

He'll say, well, shall I talk to him?

Right.

Casey, I talked to him this morning.

He doesn't want to.

He wants to wait and see.

He'd like to get the feel of it.

Just leave it open.

Just let him take the economic job so he's got a substantive basis for being in there.

And he said it's going to be tough to get very much going out of that post, but it's important not to put someone into the administration post until he sees how it all sorts out.

And if he can find a man that he wants in there, he'll put his man in.

If he can't, just leave it empty for a while.

That's what I'm trying to do.

Very good.

Leave it empty till I, if I move up to a deputy secretary then, you know, put somebody in there.

But, see, it's, we gotta be sure we get a hold of all the strings in that place.

And that's just, just wanna set up anything that could slip out of this grip.

Good.

You go there, it just looks like it's just a dump truck.

It hit me.

He'll do a great job.

I'm sure he will, don't you?

Oh, he's, it's fun, because, you know, he's really, Oh, yeah.

And he's,

He's a problem.

He'll be a thorn.

At this point, it would be, it'd be just too big, too big in there, too, too hard, too, uh, would you agree?

Yes, sir.

But I, as you know, I saw the first, uh, work on a roll saying we do have this capabilities.

And Colson, he's going to be the guy on the outside that's going to give us the shift list.

And of course that shift list.

And the plumb list.

Well, I was thinking of the shift list if you're going to Washington.

Right.

It's going to be fun.

They didn't think about moving this around.

As you can see now.

Look how much better it is, Bob, if I had followed the, um, the Rogers advice.

Now, what would Rogers have done in these circumstances?

He would have kept the whole cabin.

I said, you gentlemen all did a fine job, and I appreciate your support, and now I gotta stay for four more years.

You gotta go ahead for four more years, and they'd all settle back down in their soft chairs here again.

They can't decorate their offices.

How do I go to Camp David?

How do I get the Sequoia?

The idea of a stupid bull.

The only other thing is if they decide, yeah, from your side.

Perfect.

From the other side is whether they decide to do something with, what was his name?

I don't know.

The guy that worked for him in the campaign.

From the state.

Oh, yeah.

whether they want to use it, or who is exploring.

Now, what if this is a good property for us, or something?

Oh, yeah.

There's no problem with using CODIS.

The only question is that he has the rare ability to track with that crew over there.

There's another possibility.

And I at least have that confidence.

There's another possibility to do this, is to have CODIS over in our summer.

What's the possibility of that?

It's part of it for me, but in that shot, but the primary responsibility for the White House scheduling and for the contacts that he's doing and all that sort of thing.

Do anybody, if he's a West Wing, if he's our guy, they'll tear him up over there?

How do I work on this?

I just don't know.

I think the way you do it is you've got to raise your path.

That you're making the changes, staff changes and all that.

She's going to make an issue out of you making them now.

And we're going to be sending CODIS back to the State Department unless she wants something done about that.

And some other reassignment that we've got to sign in now.

We're making some changes in the protocol on this.

She'll say she doesn't want anybody, but she always does.

She's got to have someone to know.

She says that, but she doesn't.

She knows she

I think the girls were very, very good.

If we put that off until Sheriff Julie gets back, I think that's when I'll get Julie to work on it.

Maybe she can work it out.

Let's put Kodas back where he is.

Give us a small matter.

Do we give any more thought to Eddie?

We can't bring him in the White House.

We've got to do it.

It's not specific as the head, you know, like Kennedy did, as the head of a separate department, but in the White House, which is clearly your appointment as a staff, you can't do it.

I don't know what you'll do.

I'm wondering about using him as the, uh, foundation.

Well, no.

As a, as a part of the, the, uh, Colesnapper, as when we set up the, the foundation, the, the institute or the PR firm.

Well, Colesnapper would work on that, though.

Yeah.

Great.

He'd be very good at that.

What we could do is put him in AEI for now.

He's got his academic credentials and all that.

Right.

And, uh, have him work on, on, uh,

I would say that I think that at this point we could start building a little staff at the Foundation if we could go beyond Loicon.

The assurance that we have out there.

That's a hell of a, hell of a good job.

Well, he was on the staff out there.

I know, he did, he did sort of pay, well, he did some work with us.

Yeah.

Yeah, oral history and all that sort of thing.

And he can do some work with, that's what we're going to do.

But I think he can do us more good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the active operation here in Washington, if he can come to Washington.

I think it's a thing with the foundation.

I think it's a place to introduce people to.

Yeah.

It's not bad.

Well, both the foundation and the institute, which...

When we got the foundation now, who's our major person in this story?

Nobody.

Nobody?

Nobody.

Oh, we have that.

He has got the foundation.

He works for the government.

He works for us.

He's the guy who started John Nesbitt.

We actually need somebody almost now.

We're in good shape now.

Somebody at the foundation sort of thing.

This could be a high-level person.

Aldrin is there now as well.

But that's...

I think you're right.

I think we need a high-level person to deal with all those people out there.

And it can't be Combox.

Combox isn't doing it.

And we've got to get...

There ought to be a full-time... Maybe Eddie is the guy to do it if he can do it.

Take papers and things.

I would trust him.

You're going to get into the whole business there of fundraising, site planning, and he'd be your representative on that.

He'd be a way that gets out of control so that you don't get anything going the way you don't want to.

I wonder really if that is better than trying to haul him back here to Washington.

You're a more high-powered person.

Who is more high-powered?

Well, what you need is a... What kind of kid absolutely knows how to go about all the fundraising business already?

Somebody who's... You don't want to underestimate your own.

You think of it as Yanni.

He's 43.

42.

Mm-hmm.

and he stands good with people and then dazzles people he could do if he wanted to do it he could do a hell of a job fundraising and organizing and all that sort of stuff I think he could do it in a fundraising thing really is to keep people could get a committee there for fundraising tell us what they're going to do a lot of people are going to plant fires out in that kind we told them not to do any fundraising they had the incentive all along

Oh, yeah.

We've got to push the fundraising hard now and try to get the fundraising done in the next couple of years.

But we should do it at the top of the victory.

That's right.

And while you're still in office, it makes a difference to people.

Because of his wife's illness.

And he's taken off.

He called her.

He said you had said you wanted to see him, but he said he'd like to get off for a week or so, and he'd stand by if you wanted him to.

And I said, no, it'd be weird if I put this together here anyway.

No, it's good.

No, it's not.

You should have a little talk with him about some of these things.

These seem to be our conditions.

No.

These things.

Of course.

I think it would be great for the young men to see it.

You know how we're going to go about it.

Yeah.

You've got to feel some of the people and so forth, the players.

He'll, he'll, he knows generally what we're doing and he'll grasp it instantly because it's the one he put together.

He's so damn disloyal.

Oh, yeah.

He bounces back and forth.

He's the old Jock Whitney crowd that's been

very, very, uh, during this campaign, they were, I guess, just that they were not, probably, very shocked that it was even in New York.

The chance of this foundation thing of going, again, kind of new majority types into it, it's a kind of thing you may find a lot of interest from a lot of places that we would have never thought of before.

But what's going to be, what's going to be the inaugural?

You've got to get the right kind of focus on that sort of thing.

What type of level of architecture is that going to be?

No problem.

It's just going to be old.

When you find the way they did it, and this is Jeff Magooder, who, you know, we called him on stuff, but he did a superb job on that.

He called GSA, and GSA had their engineer look at the plans and say it was structurally unsound.

They couldn't do it, so they had to go with the other one.

They said if you had a heavy snowstorm, it would pack on there and be unsafe.

Which is true.

They just said we can't build that.

Which shows that you get the right setup at GSA.

I should have thought of it, didn't I, Jeff?

I just called him and said, we've got a problem with this.

See what you do, but don't create a big flap.

He called back and said, it's no problem.

GSA's not going to work.

And he's doing the other thing.

I don't know whether it's worth pulling her out of the parade.

They've got a lot of other... At least you've got to get her to send her back where she got her.

That starts you right off at a very good level.

Judge Faye.

He's a deputy attorney general.

I've seen her as a judge.

And counsel to a committee.

That's all.

Yeah, that's how I wrote it, guys.

They have a resume list of what we do.

That's the thing I keep pushing on this.

We've got to look at people in a different light.

We've got to let our young ones move up.

We've got to not typecast people as being one place.

Well, you see, in the terms of the Whittaker, my concern on Whittaker has to do with something else than moving him up.

I have great confidence.

I don't think Whittaker's got the balls to be a major runner.

No, I think you're wrong.

I think Glenn has the ball.

There's no question.

You've got to have guys that are totally different kind of guys.

Lynn's tough, dynamic, chargey.

Whitaker is his... Sweet.

Basically passive.

Very nice guy and persevering, but not dynamic.

Right.

You want me to tell you?

Conscientious, loyal.

All that.

agency people that are going to stay there.

The quicker we can inform them and get that out, the better that that settles those things for them.

So, you know, we want to inform them on the basis that they're saying that they're going to make changes.

And there's a new relationship.

I was thinking of you as well.

Yeah.

Right.

I really need the time.

I have a question.

You've got to start getting me down there about three weeks anyway, because I just think this is three weeks into the election, and this is going to be rough.

It's been a damn rough period, grinding through this stuff.

These are decisions you've had a little bit for a long time.

I'm just working like hell, talking to you about it, and frankly, some of the meetings have been goddamn tough.

There's just no fun to sit there with Bill Rogers.

Again, Mike needs to...

George Romney, John Bolew, and Dick Helms.

Even Dick Helms was hurt by Dick Helms.

And the oil people.

And these are the ones that are totally easy to climb up to.

If I wanted to call, you would if you would give Hodgson a call and tell him that the president wants him to do it.

If you need a job, it's being held.

But also,

We don't know what's going to happen to the European community.

No, we don't have to do that.

We don't have to do that.

How about you went into NATO?

No.

The more I think about it, I want to really get that NATO, that European community guy out of there.

I'd rather have Hodgson there.

If the other wasn't big enough, Hodgson's an economic man.

He could go to the European community.

And then, for NATO then, you could put in

There's where you can put in a legal term, where you can put in a bad grade.

Okay.

Time to think of it, you know.

If they did ask that grade in this competition about Watergate, what the hell?

It's got to be asked about it sometime.

You say, yes, sir, I conducted an investigation.

We did this and that together.

Thank you, Mr. President.

The administration totally cooperated.

At least the people were involved.

Was the attorney general?

No.

No, he wasn't.

What's he say about the finance?

I can't comment upon that because that's in trial at the present time.

And it's hardly relevant to my qualifications for data.

Yeah, he can't say that.

The point is, as a member of the committee, he can say that.

I've got a paper coming up today.

He's been gone since the last Sunday, but he's going to

I don't think he wants... What I did is I had John Dean talk to him at Big Board, who he sees as sort of a father figure anyway.

And he said that his advice to the president...

on this is going to be that Dwight must go.

It's not right for Dwight's sake, and it's not right for the President's sake for him to stay in the White House, because it would be a focal point.

Dean has already done this.

He did this yesterday.

He said it was kind of a blow that Jamie hadn't really thought that was going to hit.

And Jamie said, well, what is wrong with him?

And Dean said, I've discussed this in general with Bob, but he doesn't know what my final recommendation is.

I'll call him and tell him.

And I'll tell him I've talked with you and told you, and that he called me and told me, which we certainly haven't done.

I'm going to talk to him.

And, uh, just, Chavis, now that he's pretty, Dean says, because he talked to him again this morning, and Chavis had dinner with Dave Morrow last night.

Chavis, the Chicago guy, will bounce back.

Oh, yeah.

He's going to get it done.

No problem.

He's going to get that outstanding young man thing out in January, and, uh, you know, he'll be, you know, he'll be up with Dave.

And, uh, so that what he'd rather do is go into, uh, at least what he thought.

Dean said yesterday was,

His real interest is television.

Going to one of the networks or something.

See what he can do there.

Spent some time with him last night counseling him.

I'll talk with him today, and then I'll tell him.

I'll make the point, of course, that you're deeply concerned about him.

Yeah, at least.

It's no wonder we didn't put him into this door.

There must be some threats we've got out there in that business.

Hmm?

Do the Marion thing if that's what he wants.

He might be smart to take that to the Kennedy and then he makes it run away.

So he can get out fast.

Because he's got to get out fast.

If he's going, he's got to move.

Right where to go, he should get out.

That's what I had in mind.

Strachan, we moved over to Dunn.

We moved over to USIA, the consul's office there.

And so he's out of the White House.

He had another job.

good job no announcement no no problems he is the apparently the one guy that is the problem on testimony and getting that vote and what he knows but uh

Dean says he's the one guy he's the least worried about in the testimony.

He's absolutely solid.

He said the important thing is to keep him in the government.

Keep him, you know, where he doesn't feel that he's been cut off at all.

Just let him roll with it until he gets done.

Dean did all this.

He did a hell of a good job.

Oh, boy.

And Devin got in there.

I never thought he was up to that.

It wasn't quite moving on.

Dean has stepped up in a hell of a lot better fashion than anybody over at Justice.

We're trying to get achievement out, strong out, trying to get all of those things in place before

I'm going through the thing with them and it's got to be a Dean report.

It says nobody was involved or somebody was, but only in this extent.

That's right.

You have no bearing on it.

You can hit Watergate Square on the house.

Yeah.

I think Dale meeting people and calling people in the fall and all that sort of thing.

I think he would.

I don't know it very well.

I've got to talk to him, get a better feel of what he thinks he can do, too.