{"conversationCode":"237-019","tapeNumber":237,"conversationNumber":19,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-237-019","startDateTime":"1972-12-29T17:01:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-12-29T17:08:00.000Z","startDate":"29-Dec-1972","startTime":"12:01 PM","endDate":"29-Dec-1972","endTime":"12:08 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.;","description":"On December 29, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 12:01 pm to 12:08 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 237-019 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDHW","recordingDevice":"Camp David Hard Wire","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":"5.2","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part II","chronReleaseDate":"2-Dec-2008","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 237-19\n\nDate: December 29, 1972\nTime: 12:01 pm - 12:08 pm\nLocation: Camp David Hard Wire\n\nThe President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.\n\n[See Conversation No. 158-15]","filename":["237-019.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A."],"prevCode":"237-018","nextCode":"237-020","transcript":[{"start":0.34,"end":20.42,"text":"Oh, Henry, I forgot to ask you about your analysis of the Joe and Lye statement."},{"start":20.72,"end":22.24,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":22.38,"end":25.26,"text":"Kennedy said Matt and Ben was in the captain, wasn't he, King?"},{"start":28.16,"end":35.29,"text":"Let's see."},{"start":35.31,"end":35.83,"text":"So what?"},{"start":35.85,"end":54.31,"text":"Well, of course, the war, the bombing imperils our relations and all that, correct?"},{"start":54.34,"end":55.42,"text":"What in the world are you sending a message about now?"},{"start":55.44,"end":56.3,"text":"Message you're sending?"},{"start":56.36,"end":56.5,"text":"Uh-huh."},{"start":60.05,"end":66.12,"text":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"start":66.27,"end":78.14,"text":"Oh, wow, we expect bomb, yeah."},{"start":78.24,"end":85.14,"text":"Well, and also they've got to say that these are their allies."},{"start":89.32,"end":101.78,"text":"I was saying, I told Kennedy about Johnson being informed, and he said, I said, now let's go and get around and inform a lot of governments."},{"start":101.8,"end":108.41,"text":"He says, well, they're going to inform the British and the French."},{"start":109.13,"end":110.33,"text":"He says, okay, don't mind that."},{"start":110.35,"end":113.86,"text":"But I said, under no circumstances, and you're talking about under no circumstances must the Australians be informed ever of anything again."},{"start":114.92,"end":126.37,"text":"And, you know, Alex is just likely to want to get out on the horse and inform the Australians and the Koreans and all the rest of the hell of all that."},{"start":126.39,"end":126.81,"text":"That's right."},{"start":126.83,"end":143.49,"text":"But I don't think anybody else, and particularly, I just want to be sure that somebody in your shop probably can be on a watch to be sure that the state doesn't go off on anything that is all insulatory toward the Australians."},{"start":143.51,"end":144.35,"text":"Now, they've come to the"},{"start":145.06,"end":155.35,"text":"They've got to be punished a bit."},{"start":155.37,"end":165.52,"text":"I'll try to, you know, I'll try to crack them a little on the meat core of the business, too, other than we can do it."},{"start":165.54,"end":166.24,"text":"That's what we want done."},{"start":166.26,"end":166.76,"text":"That's right."},{"start":166.78,"end":167.54,"text":"All people should have a try."},{"start":167.56,"end":174.89,"text":"And I don't want, like, you know, there's such things as birthday messages and all that crap, and responding to the nice sort of New Year's messages, and no, no go, nothing, don't sign up a thing."},{"start":177.72,"end":183.45,"text":"that we don't let him go."},{"start":183.47,"end":191.81,"text":"Unless it's something that we want to put it to him."},{"start":192.11,"end":192.31,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":193.37,"end":194.03,"text":"He's in."},{"start":194.05,"end":202.98,"text":"Basically, he's in a peace decline, but he's certainly taking Australia down a very, very dangerous path."},{"start":203.1,"end":205.81,"text":"And when it ends, very often, end to end."},{"start":208.49,"end":218.58,"text":"Hell of a dangerous thing."},{"start":218.6,"end":224.87,"text":"And just avoid contact with his ambassadors and no social functions."},{"start":227.97,"end":231.5,"text":"There are lots of things that can be done."},{"start":231.52,"end":234.34,"text":"But you did tell the ambassadors that we thought that was a pretty damn poor way to act."},{"start":237.83,"end":251.29,"text":"Of course, that basically is the answer."},{"start":251.31,"end":258.95,"text":"There was a lot of bombing."},{"start":258.97,"end":259.15,"text":"Directly."},{"start":259.17,"end":260.25,"text":"My wife didn't know I'm mad at her."},{"start":260.27,"end":265.74,"text":"Well, we'll see how much Percy stands up."},{"start":265.76,"end":266.58,"text":"He won't."},{"start":266.82,"end":267.4,"text":"There must have been suicide."},{"start":269.1,"end":273.95,"text":"Stay alive."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss retaliatory measures against the Australian government following its criticism of U.S. bombing operations during the Vietnam War. Nixon explicitly instructs Kissinger to exclude Australian officials from sensitive communications and mandates a diplomatic freeze that includes avoiding social functions and birthday messages. The conversation underscores the administration's intent to punish the Australian leadership for their political opposition to American military policy.","topics":["Australia","Vietnam War","Foreign Policy","Diplomatic Relations","Bombing Campaigns"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T11:17:54.318Z"},"topicSlugs":["australia","vietnam-war","foreign-policy","diplomatic-relations","bombing-campaigns"],"audioDurationSec":281,"audioFiles":[{"file":"237-019.mp3","bytes":6750844,"durationSec":281.15,"bitrate":192094,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:36.205Z","transcriptGapSeconds":39,"transcriptGapShare":0.14,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/237-019.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/237-019","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/237/conversation-237-019","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}