Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 237 › Conversation 237-030

Nixon phone call with Colson on Vietnam War and Operation Linebacker II

Friday, December 29, 1972 · 5:20 PM–5:32 PM ET · Camp David Hard Wire · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation237-030 on Tape 237StartFriday, December 29, 1972 at 5:20 PMEndFriday, December 29, 1972 at 5:32 PMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 237-030 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss the strategic messaging surrounding the ongoing bombing campaign in Vietnam, specifically focusing on how to justify the actions as necessary to compel North Vietnam to negotiate. They examine how the President's firm stance serves to reassure U.S. allies and enforce the credibility of international commitments. Additionally, the conversation touches on political strategy regarding Congressional relations and the need to improve messaging to Republican candidates about the importance of aligning with the President's platform.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 4 minutes of this recording (about 42% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

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One further thought which somebody in the right narrowing should have, which occurs to me, which is sophisticated only, but Scully will understand it totally, is that this action, of course, while it was not done for this purpose, will enormously increase the incentive for shamanic
Or shall we say, it will increase the disincentive for the enemy to break an agreement.
You see the point?
Exactly.
In other words, the enforceability, the lasting quality of an agreement.
And also, that's true all over the world.
The world, I mean, people will squeal and scream and all that about this sort of thing.
But this has its effect, too, sort of thing.
that the president will step up in the hard way to take the action to keep our commitments.
In other words, that it gives great courage to our allies.
That's right, that's right.
The one point that is very difficult to explain is the weapons.
Why did we do it?
Well, of course, we did it to break the ball buster and get the bastards to talk.
Threatening to continue to talk while they were preparing to fight, which is exactly the syndrome we were getting.
What do you think?
Is he?
What's he say?
We're up, and their infiltration has increased there.
All right, good.
Good, good.
All right, all right, all right.
Scali's reaction is encouraging because his gut reaction was the same as yours apparently.
He still feels that way this afternoon.
Good.
They'll have money if I have to write.
He can do an awful lot of good if he can get rid of the wires.
He can build the verticals.
In fact, he can give them a quick go.
And beyond that, the others are a routine basically.
And try the TVs to the best you can.
He's got the story written himself.
Just say here's what it is.
What?
So that's the last thing that occurred to me.
Well, it's quite true, of course.
It happens to be factually true.
But anyway...
The Congress, you're really getting very tiresome.
They say, why don't you consult the leaders?
I don't think, I think Pivots and the boys have got to go ahead and use the term, the leaders.
Don't just say the Congress.
Don't you think so?
Why call them the leaders?
They're already leaders down there.
I mean, they would consult the Congress, or the Senate, or the House, but never the leaders.
Now, we'll say we're going to consult the Congress, and the Republican Congress, the Republicans in Congress.
Why call it the leaders?
I mean, that's a deal so much too much.
Yeah.
He doesn't breathe.
But God almighty, the crazy son of a bitch, he's just a member of the armchair.
We can't breathe.
We can't talk to every member of the committee.
I make a few noises about him in Ohio after this.
I can't breathe.
Real hard, you know.
Yeah, told us to say, just say, I think my mate got running done for the primary.
Yeah.
Well, you know, he's learned a lot.
He could be Sam Devine, you know, one of those boys.
Yeah.
But Devine can stir it up and Luton can stir it up, you know.
And the two of them just say, well, Devine might say he's thinking of considering running, but he's thinking, you know, we're going to mix with a bigger band.
The president went by 61%.
Carried their state by 60%.
Good God, if they win by 53%, they think it's a landslide.
Basically, I am convinced, despite all the business, that the trouble with basically our Republicans down was lost.
Whether it was looking at Senator Mark and poor old nice fellow Bob
No, I'm very strong.
But Miller was always trying to have a little space.
And Alec Wood, all right, but he had a little space, too.
You know, he was trying to be independent.
Basically, man, the Republicans, that poor goddamn Wilson.
The Republicans never got it across to enough candidates to judge.
You know, we pounded and pounded and pounded, and I know some of you did.
But the idea that they had to run the election, they were trying to run it on their own too much.
Yeah, well, maybe so.
You know, Russia is just as typical as Yale, you know, Russia.
But that's what we need.
We need to go out and out on the basis that we didn't suddenly work.
Well, anyway, this is, uh, this is kind of slapping in the basement of a wet fish tomorrow, isn't it?
It's got to be that way.
They don't think of their prisoners.
They don't think of trying to end the killing from both sides.
They don't think of any honor for this country.
They just think of how they can, if they were all from a government, trying to think how they could justify.
Let's say this.
If there's been anything you're
I mean, tell it to hang on him.
Why don't you say it that way?
Why don't you give him a little shot?
You've got to be able to do it.
Let's go ahead.
Okay.
As a matter of fact, they might just, just, just, but they ought to come out there and somebody ought to come out while he's having those services dispatched right now.
I really think so.
I mean, do it in a dramatic way that won't embarrass you.
And, uh, and confront him and talk to him.
Get an articulate person who can do it.
Maybe that blind veteran goes out.
Okay.
That's what I mean.
Okay.
Fine.
All right.
That's fine.

NARA Description

On December 29, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 5:20 pm to 5:32 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 237-030 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 237-30

Date: December 29, 1972
Time: 5:20 pm - 5:32 pm
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 158-24]
                                            -14-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Also recorded on December 29, 1972

  • 158-020 5:06 PM · 26 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 5:06 pm.
  • 158-021 5:06 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:06 pm and 5:12 pm.
  • 158-022 5:12 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone at Camp David from 5:12 pm to 5:15 pm.
  • 237-029 5:12 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 5:12 pm to 5:15 pm.
  • 158-023 5:15 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:15 pm and 5:20 pm.
  • 237-052 5:15 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:15 pm and 5:20 pm.
  • 158-024 5:20 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 5:20 pm to 5:32 pm.
  • 237-031 5:32 PM · 21 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:32 pm and 6:00 pm.

All 67 conversations from December 29, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 237-030, December 29, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/237-030 (accessed October 11, 2026).