Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 245-018
Date: Tuesday, April 6, 1971 at 1:00 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: Old Executive Office Building
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/245-018
National Archives Catalog: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417183253 (NAID 417183253)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] My suggestion is, for example, to get my foot in some good news.
[0:16] I wonder whether that is.
[0:17] That would be just better to say to get my foot by announcing an issue.
[0:23] It's a period from May 1st to December 1st.
[0:56] On the right edge of the tube, because most of these studies have changed, right?
[1:09] On the first line, instead of hands, that means it's a little better to say water.
[1:10] Where it says what?
[1:11] It may be important to get down to water, I don't know.
[1:15] But actually, it's not important.
[1:22] No, actually, it's better to have a little bit of water.
[1:25] Maybe we should add this with another herb in there.
[1:51] And without endangerment.
[1:52] And without destroy.
[1:54] The word didn't change either, though.
[2:08] Well, I mean, without jeopardizing, it's all right.
[2:12] Leave that.
[2:12] We're not going to step up a straw without jeopardizing our aid, of course.
[2:16] And without endangering our own souls.
[2:18] See, I think it needs another trailer.
[2:20] Yeah.
[2:21] Yeah, I know.
[2:27] You're making a different focus.
[2:32] Yeah, I'm making a different mind.
[2:37] Or adventuring out of the door.
[2:41] Well, I mean, in the end, it's a little better for me to say that.
[2:47] The dictionary is all right.
[2:47] Yeah.
[2:47] It's not a dictionary.
[2:48] It's really not.
[2:49] It's a question of how it feels, but I read it, and I don't know if it's a feeling.
[3:06] I think it's fine.
[3:14] I see your point.
[3:14] All right.
[3:14] There was no comprehensive plan in the third paragraph.
[3:16] I just want to negotiate a settlement.
[3:16] I just want to negotiate a settlement before we move on to the next step.
[3:22] It's just, it's all summed up.
[3:36] I mean, I don't want another, you know.
[3:38] I added one other sentence, just to drag this into the fourth sentence.
[3:40] I don't want to, I don't want to add one more sentence.
[3:42] What I said, what I said, we develop body to flesh for negotiation.
[3:44] No, I don't want to do that.
[3:56] I don't want to do that.
[4:01] See, I just want to come right to the point of all the negotiations.
[4:02] That can be covered in the background.
[4:03] There was no comprehensive finding.
[4:04] I implemented it.
[4:07] I will say I set in motion the plan because I implemented the plan.
[4:25] Yeah, because I mean to say that.
[4:26] So I'm just like somebody else that developed it.
[4:27] You know, we said earlier that I...
[4:28] Initiated.
[4:28] Initiated.
[4:28] Initiated went too far, but I set it in motion.
[4:29] I set it in motion.
[4:30] I set it in motion.
[4:30] Is that what you want to say?
[4:31] Well, implemented the plan.
[4:36] I think Gable Manor is a little bit better than Southern Ocean.
[4:57] I think it's a, I know the point.
[4:58] They had to plan without acting on the work.
[4:59] They were training softly in these old times.
[5:00] But it comes from page three.
[5:01] It's in September.
[5:01] Oh, I know.
[5:02] I didn't know it was in September.
[5:02] Yeah, it was $35,500.
[5:03] Let's just say September 35th.
[5:23] September.
[5:23] September 35th.
[5:23] December.
[5:25] Was December correct?
[5:25] Yes.
[5:25] It wasn't $50,000?
[5:26] No.
[5:26] Fine.
[5:26] And in April?
[5:27] April of 1970.
[5:28] All of it?
[5:28] I guess just around $50,000.
[5:29] Incidentally, Mr. President, I looked at the charge that you've been made, and I am beginning to think maybe you ought to use the charge, because that is tremendous.
[5:33] Well, it's a bit of both, you know.
[5:52] It was Robert, you know, in his briefing of the cabinet, it was quite effective to show that, except that I had the same feeling before I put Roe to charge, or before you raised it, I had written it was out for them.
[5:58] For the very reason I said, Jesus can be put casually on the charge.
[6:01] That's the gun.
[6:11] And I just wonder dramatically what it is.
[6:15] So you show this, you show that.
[6:16] But it's still a man.
[6:17] Of course, even if we have one of those.
[6:18] The control shot is better.
[6:19] I think it's not.
[6:19] I just feel if you've got a problem on sensitivity, some of the visual rays, he looks at categories of a child.
[6:23] See my point?
[6:40] That's what you sense, and I agree with you.
[6:44] I agree with you.
[6:45] I don't think you're... You see the damn chart that it looks so impressive.
[6:46] You should use it at your briefings.
[6:47] Hell yes.
[6:47] I think that for me to control it is a little risky.
[6:48] Yeah, because we're eight times as great in 33 months and 60 years.
[6:50] That's because of the capital.
[6:50] All right, let's see.
[6:53] Is that, is that stretching at all?
[7:15] Well, I mean, that's got categories with eight times the strength of the person.
[7:17] Well, if you want to say 69, you can say it's five.
[7:18] Well, is it five then?
[7:18] Well, that's hard for us.
[7:19] All right, let's put that to five.
[7:20] Don't you think so?
[7:21] I'd have to check the figure, but I think it's five.
[7:23] Well, then.
[7:24] It's either 5 or 8.
[7:35] Yeah, either 5 or 4, if you take 69.
[7:43] Yeah.
[7:44] And then that leaves Ted out of it, you know.
[7:46] I think if you throw Ted in, people will say, well, Jesus Christ, he's making a comparison with Ted.
[7:50] It's a lie.
[7:50] I know it's a lie, because he had a hold over Ted.
[7:51] Ted and his word.
[7:52] But now, how about, if you got into business about in the first three months of 1971, including the...
[7:55] Including Laos.
[8:14] That's what I mean.
[8:14] You wanted to say that.
[8:15] You can say that.
[8:16] I think you should say it.
[8:16] I tell you, that's what I...
[8:17] I know you mentioned it earlier, but it seems to me that that's very good for background.
[8:20] Say, gentlemen, this includes all the cattle for Laos and the cattle should be for this week.
[8:22] And I just throw that away, which are higher than that $88,000.
[8:24] Even though that is a third, I mean two-thirds of what they were a year ago, because of the fire cases we expect them to be.
[8:43] In the first three months this year, because I know that it's just too much to put in here, in the first three months this year they were 60% lower, even less lower than they were last year for sure.
[8:49] You make that point.
[8:55] I make it up.
[8:58] You don't want to put it in because it's a good sentence.
[9:07] Well, it's a stronger sentence, Kevin.
[9:10] We put five times as great in the first three months of 1969.
[9:12] As they were in the first three months of 1969.
[9:13] I think 69 is the better one to use.
[9:14] Let's use that.
[9:14] In the first three months.
[9:15] I look back here.
[9:15] Yeah, what about the sentence?
[9:16] Oh.
[9:17] Yeah.
[9:20] All right.
[9:33] Yeah.
[9:33] Yeah.
[9:38] That's a good idea.
[9:42] Significance.
[9:50] in this same period.
[10:08] Is that better?
[10:08] That is very good, Robert.
[10:10] In this, uh, period?
[10:11] No.
[10:11] And the other one?
[10:11] The other sentence?
[10:12] The other sentence.
[10:12] Is there a word later?
[10:13] No.
[10:13] It's here.
[10:13] Uh, uh-huh.
[10:14] So, as we've declared, you as ground forces, but you as air forces have come to us.
[10:17] Actually, at the time of all this, you as air forces have been, have been to do plenty of it now.
[10:20] This is to happen to a government that says we're not giving them the air that we can.
[10:41] I wonder if you can't cover that in the background.
[10:42] I just feel, I just feel it now.
[10:43] It took me to answer that fifth week of that goddamn thing.
[10:45] I'll take it.
[10:45] You did.
[10:46] And you say, now, gentlemen, the president has asked me to predict that he's covering the air source.
[10:48] That is a bare-faced lie, a bare-faced fabrication.
[11:08] That's what I would say.
[11:09] Do you agree, Mr. President, that I think I ought to do the TV and other separate things?
[11:13] Oh, oh, oh.
[11:13] I have nothing but the last sentence to contribute to the achievement of our goals in Southeast Asia.
[11:15] I will put it in Southeast Asia and our goals.
[11:19] Should I say Vietnam?
[11:31] Vietnam.
[11:31] Okay.
[11:33] Well, I reckon you guys will just sit around there and we can talk to you in the second paragraph.
[11:37] I wouldn't say we sit here for the other half, but other than that, I'm okay.
[11:43] All right.
[11:44] They are casualty.
[11:58] They work on cam.
[11:59] They, rather than our casualty.
[12:06] Yeah, the investment system.
[12:07] They've got a short effort.
[12:07] I know.
[12:07] Any suggestions?
[12:08] In the next pattern, I would be more of a, you could say, self-deeming job, or is it, with the management answer for it,
[12:12] against North Vietnamese troops that have been used in the Ocean Territory for eight years to attack South Vietnam.
[12:36] So it doesn't look as if we've been there.
[12:37] All right, let me just take that down and turn it out of the way.
[12:38] I'm taking it from South Vietnam East, but...
[12:39] Put it by South Vietnamese ground forces.
[12:41] We can't move in these droves, I guess.
[13:07] There's no...
[13:08] There's no way to do it.
[13:08] Well, okay.
[13:08] So, how long are we there?
[13:09] We've been there six years.
[13:09] That's what it has been.
[13:11] for eight years.
[13:24] I wanted to attack our forces in Vietnam.
[13:30] That's what they, that's what people are interested in here.
[13:32] And I wouldn't worry about how the place, see what I'm saying?
[13:33] Which is existing in the ocean territory for six years.
[13:39] To attack our forces.
[13:40] You see?
[13:41] Should we say American Portion?
[14:01] No.
[14:02] We're attacking American Portion.
[14:04] Yeah.
[14:04] Do I have a Portion?
[14:06] It's on the left.
[14:07] Yeah.
[14:07] It's on the left side.
[14:08] Page five.
[14:08] Okay.
[14:08] I will say second.
[14:09] I don't know if it's against second.
[14:10] No, I wouldn't put that in.
[14:33] Last line, they said, damaging to the capability of the North Vietnamese, not to increase their attacks, which is to launch major offensives.
[14:53] Yeah, yeah, even more damaging to launch major offensives, to launch major offensives in South Vietnam.
[14:57] Yeah.
[14:57] Rather than against.
[14:58] In South Vietnam.
[14:58] To launch.
[14:58] Remember, if you're looking for a guest in Vietnam, you've got to launch major offensives.
[15:06] against in South Vietnam.
[15:26] It's better than against Vietnam.
[15:27] It's better than South Vietnam.
[15:28] It's better than South Vietnam.
[15:29] It's better than South Vietnam.
[15:31] It's better than South Vietnam.
[15:33] It's better than South Vietnam.
[15:33] It's better than South Vietnam.
[15:34] It's better than South Vietnam.
[15:35] It's better than South Vietnam.
[15:36] Because Vietnamization has succeeded.
[15:53] Because of the success of the Cambodia operation.
[16:00] Or, I don't make too much effort.
[16:06] I can say, I can report that the immunization has succeeded.
[16:21] That the immunization has succeeded.
[16:24] That the immunization has succeeded.
[16:33] I like that.
[16:40] That's a good suggestion, man.
[16:49] He's so smart.
[16:54] He's just on our side a little more.
[16:55] He'd have all the help.
[16:55] He's so smart.
[16:56] He'd stand out and be smart in the Middle East.
[16:57] Hell, he ought to be scared.
[16:57] We screw this up.
[16:58] Forget the Middle East.
[16:58] I don't get that.
[17:00] Let me tell you.
[17:00] We screw up this up.
[17:00] I'm going to turn around.
[17:01] I will.
[17:01] It's a hell of a thing to do, but I will.
[17:02] I will.
[17:02] I don't want that.
[17:03] If America will not come down to the mark for 45,000 Americans dead in Vietnam, now we're going to screw the whole business.
[17:19] And, Mr. Elliott, that's my idea.
[17:20] What the hell do you think you have to do with every joke all out there who's got to care about Cali?
[17:23] Mr. President, the idea that we would buy it would do anything, too.
[17:24] I don't mind fighting for the Jews.
[17:41] I mean, I'm for both, because they take a, when you take a 5 million, I'm going to put it to the wall, those goddamn Nazis.
[17:45] I mean, that's what I do.
[17:46] I have mixed feelings about it, because they have, you know, the Nazis and everything they've gone through.
[17:49] Then I want to help them.
[17:50] But, on the other hand,
[17:52] You can't have the American attitude be, look, we're not going to do a thing.
[18:12] The 45,000 Americans are going to go to the back of the war here.
[18:13] They're not going to do it.
[18:14] The average person isn't going to do it.
[18:15] The average person in this country is a sad thing.
[18:16] I think it's a good thing, though.
[18:17] Now it's going to be the night I can report to the administration and succeed.
[18:19] And then strike, and then put the cards in that capital letter.
[18:36] Because of our progress in the training, Mr. Chesney, we'll achieve that.
[18:41] And they're powerful, powerful.
[18:42] That made me believe that I was the greatest man, the father of the line here in the river.
[18:44] They could say, the Americans welcomed me, and I was kind of good at it.
[18:45] I've had the best of days, but it's not good for me.
[18:47] and take over the only thing that's inside.
[19:01] Before I go to the total, and then I'm starting to be coming to them.
[19:08] All right.
[19:08] Today, we can, we can now, we can now see the day.
[19:09] We can now, our, the day is in sight, is that what you want to say?
[19:13] Is that what you like?
[19:15] We have much better people.
[19:21] Let's see.
[19:36] Let's see.
[19:36] The American problems.
[19:36] South Vietnamese.
[19:37] We can.
[19:38] By the way, if you say today.
[19:38] See, today is exciting.
[19:39] And they're going to say, why the hell would you say so?
[19:41] Well, they will anyway.
[19:41] That's right.
[19:41] We cover that later.
[19:42] The American problems.
[19:42] South Vietnamese.
[19:44] You'll soon be ready.
[20:03] What do we say?
[20:03] What do we say?
[20:04] The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
[20:13] I think your insight isn't bad.
[20:18] You rapidly approach the day and say, no, we can soon see.
[20:31] No, we can see.
[20:40] The day the South Vietnamese can take over the entire responsibility.
[20:42] Should we say that?
[20:45] I don't know that we can, but let's not give it away.
[21:09] It goes back, in other words, that's our marketing for the residual forests, all of them are guaranteed.
[21:29] We should hold on to that until, uh, until the end of the summer.
[21:33] We've been acting like that for years.
[21:34] He says we can wheel it.
[21:34] Well, I think, Mr. Dresden, that we've had a few successes in foreign policy.
[21:37] And I believe past that we should crucify those goddamn prisoners.
[21:56] I hope they have now drifted as far as I can see.
[21:57] Those bastards have, they are the most implacable opponents.
[21:59] To think what they have done to this country and to us and what we've been through time and again.
[22:01] Let me say this.
[22:08] This pulls off.
[22:30] Don't curse if I don't mean it.
[22:31] Suck on the wall a little bit.
[22:31] Just suck on the wall a little bit.
[22:39] I don't mean that you don't respond as a candidate.
[22:52] I'm speaking now of the press, all the loci, intellectuals, all the other branches.
[22:57] Let them come along.
[22:58] Then all of them are going to come up too.
[22:59] I'm not going to let them down.
[23:00] As far as I'm concerned, it's a luge that they don't use.
[23:02] But if we win, they'll run along.
[23:17] And in fact, believe me, there won't be anybody, Hunter, Gale, Colon, Christian, anybody, anywhere that has gotten that captain or sent you.
[23:23] And we're going to go out and put a good will to the south and the far west.
[23:25] We're going to hear what they say.
[23:26] The country's going to be done.
[23:27] These people will get it.
[23:27] They'll throw it in the tunnel.
[23:28] Now, incidentally, I talk to all of them about that list you sent in from Florida.
[23:31] Jesus Christ, he called it.
[23:32] I think I approve on one name.
[23:43] Noah.
[23:47] I approve.
[23:48] And we are, I think it would be all right.
[23:50] Wouldn't it?
[23:51] There's two.
[23:51] Beyond that, I don't take Tom Gates.
[23:52] I think Tom is too close to the...
[23:55] And we don't owe him anything.
[24:02] He's never done anything for us.
[24:07] I told Bob that it might be a good, strong, conservative assembly, as far as we're concerned.
[24:11] We're going to do loads of goddamn things.
[24:13] From now on, everything is loaded.
[24:16] But in terms of what we do with these weapons, I've talked to Henry.
[24:17] They've had it.
[24:18] And don't get disturbed about it.
[24:22] We're going to play them.
[24:23] We're going to play them.
[24:24] It works, you know, everything they get out of it.
[24:47] But if we get some successes, we'll play it around, and they'll start sucking around.
[24:49] But play it just a little cool, so they keep them guessing.
[24:50] Make them think that maybe they can't get back.
[24:51] If they can have an election, we run.
[24:52] Of course we will.
[24:52] And we just want to take activism.
[24:54] He didn't speak up.
[25:09] Where the hell is he?
[25:14] They come in and they mow it around.
[25:18] You've got a very tough job.
[25:19] Why the hell don't they speak up?
[25:24] Where are they now?
[25:27] I haven't heard a word.
[25:29] Lawyers, the rest.
[25:30] Henry?
[25:31] David Rockefeller's headed.
[25:32] Unless he speaks up.
[25:38] He's a weak man.
[25:40] Nelson's not weak.
[25:41] Nelson's just...
[25:45] Before it's made.
[26:00] It must be before it's made.
[26:02] No, I'm going to call him tomorrow and I'm going to tell him.
[26:08] Here's the change.
[26:08] Here's the change.
[26:09] If he squirms, then... No, no, no.
[26:09] You've got to give him air.
[26:10] We'll let everybody come back.
[26:11] Every politician, everybody.
[26:11] After the election.
[26:12] After the speech.
[26:12] If we get any support...
[26:13] We'll get something.
[26:24] We'll get something.
[26:32] We'll get an election.
[26:33] We'll get a step in.
[26:34] Quite a few progressions and so forth.
[26:35] One of the interesting things that happened to Nick Monex, that lost it from George Pundit, he's a great brother of mine.
[26:37] Is he?
[26:38] Yeah.
[26:38] He was giving money to Muskie all the time.
[26:39] Did you know the Board Foundation has financed all of Muskie's trips to Africa?
[26:41] Now that's a foundation for him.
[26:42] Now Muskie is a presidential candidate.
[26:43] I traveled for eight years
[26:44] I made a lot of money off of that.
[26:53] I earned the money by writing to the Reader's Digest, and with a $250,000 law firm practice, and I made $450,000 out of my book.
[27:00] I financed the whole goddamn thing.
[27:04] Did I ever hear a word from the Ford Foundation?
[27:06] The foundation suggested, look,
[27:07] The next thing you know, the Vice President is going to make his trip abroad.
[27:20] He was going on a non-partisan basis with me, but, you know, they financed us out of a big muskie.
[27:22] Or he had his book cut off.
[27:22] But he was very crazy.
[27:23] He didn't say anything about what happened.
[27:24] He said, you know, it's just not going to happen.
[27:25] Well, he will never say so, but what he did say, I think there is more than one thing.
[27:43] But one thing he said was, there is a fellow at the U.N. who was working when he was assistant to the president.
[27:48] He said he called him yesterday over the weekend.
[28:09] He said that he wanted you to know that Redmond is deadly serious.
[28:11] He said he wanted to know whether we had an answer to give him.
[28:13] I made him say, yes, we did.
[28:13] And, well, the question was going every which way.
[28:15] He promised to trust the agreement, his words, and so forth.
[28:16] It's very interesting.
[28:25] It's typically Russian to try to get it into another channel, too.
[28:31] But I don't think, my instinct is that the reasons they were holding out in this thread, what this Congress is doing is a quick regression of the reality.
[28:37] And I, one will lay down, one will lay down.
[28:40] Well, that won't happen.
[28:58] Well, it probably will be over.
[28:59] It will be over no later than a week from today.
[29:02] And then he'll be back with us.
[29:02] Well, things better start happening, or... You know, I'm, uh... You two probably don't believe me, but mine's perfectly certain, capable-minded.
[29:06] even my own, even all of them, I'm perfectly capable of turning right all the time.
[29:14] I never have in my life, but if I find
[29:15] There's no other way.
[29:25] In other words, you know, if you think Cambodia is ours, try to go bomb the goddamn North like it's never been bombed.
[29:39] That's why we've had these plans gotten ready and decorated just to get these people in there.
[29:40] We'll start building, and we'll bomb those bashes, and then let the American people, let this country go up in flames.
[29:43] I believe that you can't go there.
[29:44] And I believe, basically, that...
[29:47] What was your suggestion here?
[30:03] I don't know.
[30:03] I don't know.
[30:11] I don't know.
[30:16] I don't know.
[30:17] We can and will.
[30:31] What are you striking?
[30:32] I will go directly to a withdrawal from Lee and Mount to say, every decision I have made, I take those out.
[30:56] And I take those to the Senate.
[30:57] And I say, we can and will reach that goal through our program.
[30:59] Yes.
[30:59] I wouldn't operate the Senate just to do it.
[31:00] We can and will reach that goal through our program.
[31:01] Yes.
[31:01] And we get the next paragraph.
[31:20] We will get to the beginning of each of these, so.
[31:28] Now.
[31:28] Uh.
[31:28] The uh.
[31:30] I'm always out there with you, Mr. Joseph.
[31:42] Did you notice I dropped something there?
[31:44] You dropped the leaf drop yesterday, and I agreed with it.
[31:47] He offered me to sign a peace contract.
[31:47] Do you want to back him?
[31:48] I think it would be better.
[31:48] My brother said we're a national security organization, huh?
[31:50] Yeah.
[31:50] And all that up on China peace contract.
[31:51] Well, thank you.
[31:53] We'll put it in right after the immediate release of all prisoners of war on drugs.
[32:08] And all of the China peace countries come out there on drugs.
[32:10] I know why it would be nice.
[32:10] That's the only reason we have no other important instructors.
[32:12] We can throw them all outside for you.
[32:13] I'm a little concerned.
[32:15] I know of another sentence which was pretty sparse, and I'm going to put it to you from the direction of the end of this paragraph.
[32:34] I'm going to call again in order to engage the serious folks to speak at the end of the order, which in any event, our participation is drawn to as well.
[32:39] All right.
[32:39] I'll call again.
[32:40] I'll call tonight.
[32:40] I don't think that's baiting too much.
[32:44] Tonight,
[32:45] Otto said, tonight, I again.
[33:11] Hold on.
[33:12] An eye.
[33:12] Button.
[33:12] Engage in theory.
[33:12] Go.
[33:12] Go.
[33:12] Start series of motion issues.
[33:13] I want you to engage in series of motion issues.
[33:25] At the end of the war.
[33:51] At the end of the war.
[33:51] At the end of the war.
[33:52] At the end of the war.
[33:52] What I had in any event of the dissertation was going to the post in any event.
[34:12] In which in any event.
[34:12] American involvement was going to the post.
[34:13] American involvement.
[34:13] That's right.
[34:14] Yes.
[34:14] That's the word you said.
[34:14] You said American involvement.
[34:18] I mean, that just, that isn't really certain.
[34:32] I don't think you tell them.
[34:34] They're going to get involved on it.
[34:34] See what I've got to say.
[34:37] I think it's a good point to start with.
[34:41] I think people often just get some of that confidence.
[34:42] But I don't think strong people are going to get that confidence.
[34:43] It's the end of the war.
[34:44] It's the end of the war.
[34:50] Oh, well, how does it work?
[35:06] I mean, it gets a little bit of a jackass.
[35:08] It's better to leave it.
[35:09] You don't want to just add a sentence, but that's all right.
[35:10] Go ahead.
[35:10] Then, on the next page, it gives the timetable for the week, which is all about time.
[35:12] All right.
[35:12] Page 20B.
[35:12] Middle time, sir.
[35:16] a complete withdrawal of all outside forces.
[35:31] And then I've had...
[35:40] I repeat that offer.
[35:53] As better as that offer still stands.
[35:55] I repeat that offer.
[35:55] As better as that offer still stands.
[35:57] I repeat that offer.
[35:57] As better as that offer still stands.
[35:58] I repeat that offer.
[36:00] And in the next paragraph, Paul finally said he would remove the last remaining incentive.
[36:12] Paul said he would remove the strongest incentive.
[36:13] The strongest incentive.