Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 248 › Conversation 248-011

Nixon & Ehrlichman on Welfare reform and H.R. 1

Wednesday, April 14, 1971 · 3:07 PM–4:20 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation248-011 on Tape 248 (tape position 00:09:50–00:15:03)StartWednesday, April 14, 1971 at 3:07 PMEndWednesday, April 14, 1971 at 4:20 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 248-011 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss the need to adopt a 'hard-line' public stance on welfare reform to address rising public frustration and secure support for H.R. 1. The President emphasizes shifting the narrative away from expanding welfare rolls toward promoting work requirements and personal responsibility, utilizing striking anecdotes similar to those used by Governor Ronald Reagan. To implement this communication strategy, Nixon instructs Ehrlichman to coordinate with speechwriter William Safire to develop tough, persuasive rhetoric that highlights the systemic problems with the current welfare apparatus.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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John, I got that suggested.
I'm overworking on my notes here at the conference, but I got the suggestion that you made about not going to do it Monday morning.
I'm just talking about welfare.
I'm sure you know that.
It won't do any good for us unless I really hit it in terms of the hard line.
I had commonly came back from Texas, you know, and he says, you know, of course, they're going to count on the drop for one thing.
But he said, you just can't imagine people are so goddamn mad about wealth.
Down there, it goes to Mexicans.
See?
But they are mad about welfare.
Everybody's pissed off about welfare.
And I just feel that right here, we're on a bad way.
And we've just got to keep repeating that we're hard-line on welfare.
I don't know whether we can do it with, I don't know, and lose and hold other support.
But you know, our friend Wilbur is playing both ways.
He's saying, well, we're hard-line on our friendly assistance, too.
But all we have heard is that we want to add
18 million people in the welfare world.
People don't want that decision.
I commend this.
I commend Governor Rockefeller, Governor Reagan, the leadership, that at the national level, we do this, this, this, and this.
It is time that people do this.
Get some hard, tough records.
We have a South Byron.
I mean, tough records are okay.
Get South Byron.
That's what you must do.
You can't.
I want some hard rhetoric on the welfare.
I think it's just the right line for us to take.
I think it's a good idea.
Another thing, Barbara, I don't want to slobber around about it.
I don't mind saying, let's take care of those that need to stay alive.
Don't go on, let's add 15 million to the welfare rolls and see that every working poor gets taken care of.
Don't belabor that.
I mean, I just, I'd like to flush that.
Well, you can't flush it.
You've got to, you've got to mention so that you, I mean, I guess you've got to mention support of our program.
But, yeah.
But the purpose is we have got to get people into jobs.
And then put it in very personal terms.
It is the man working and earning so much of money, trying to be, hold his head high, and he lives next door to somebody who's on welfare and gets food stamps.
Here's one of those horrible examples, like Reagan.
Here's some examples.
He gets food stamps and does this and that and so forth and so on and so on.
And no matter, no one reads a map.
And, you know, then, of course, the idea of taking people into jobs, you know.
Yeah.
I like the idea of the words provided here by the hard-hitting writers, the writers who say it can't be any more than 2,000 words.
That's our outside line on speeches these days.
Well, not a word of... Yeah, the need to clean up the welfare mess.
It's H.R.
1, and it is number one priority.
Then, at the outset, say that...
You know, when you say I, if you've got the public and government, you know, at the National Governors' Conference, I emphasize, you start out with the A, well, I get excited for the other part, support, revenue sharing, and so forth.
And we need your support.
We urge you, you know, to do this.
And the support of these governors is essential to them.
This is a bipartisan program.
I'm talking about another bipartisan program today.
We're all there for this.
Welfare is a mess, it is H.R.
1.
I proposed this program on October 1st, 1967.
Now we have new ideas.
The governor has taken the lead.
And then some horrible statistics about how many have been added to the welfare rolls.
And then a couple of striking examples of, you know, like, I don't know, some of the Reagan speeches.
The man, the man next door.
Don't have any W on it, you know.
Okay?
All right.
Do Ken and Michael more than Sapphire, I'm not sure.
Get Sapphire on this then.
Tell Sapphire, because the main things to tell Sapphire are hard on and examples.
Okay.

NARA Description

On April 14, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:07 pm and 4:20 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 248-011 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 248-11

Date: April 14, 1971
Time: Unknown between 3:07 pm and 4:20 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with John D. Ehrlichman

     Ehrlichman’s memo on welfare
           -John B. Connally’s report from Texas
                 -Drought
                 -Reaction to welfare
           -Administration’s policy
           -Wilbur D. Mills
           -Addition to welfare rolls
           -Nelson A. Rockefeller and Ronald W. Reagan
           -Instructions to William L. Safire
           -President’s welfare program
                 -Purposes
                       -Employment
                 -Advertising
           -Reagan
           -Food stamps
           -Jobs
           -House Resolution [HR] 1
           -National Governors’ Conference
           -Revenue sharing
           -Need of support of governors
                 -Bipartisanship
           -President’s welfare program

                -Welfare reform
                      -HR 1
                -Status
                      -Lack of progress
          -Statistics
          -Examples from Reagan’s speeches
          -Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
          -Patrick J. Buchanan and Safire
          -Instructions to Safire

Also recorded on April 14, 1971

  • 042-036 2:13 PM · 3 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:13 pm and 3:05 pm.
  • 042-037 3:05 PM · 20 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 3:05 pm to 3:07 pm.
  • 248-009 3:05 PM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:05 pm to 3:07 pm.
  • 248-010 3:07 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:07 pm and 4:20 pm.
  • 248-012 3:07 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:07 pm and 4:20 pm.
  • 248-013 3:07 PM · 3 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:07 pm and 4:20 pm.
  • 248-014 3:07 PM · 31 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:07 pm and 4:20 pm.
  • 248-015 3:07 PM · 27 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:07 pm and 4:20 pm.

All 34 conversations from April 14, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 248-011, April 14, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/248-011 (accessed October 3, 2026).